From: Bill Roh (billroh@churchofvirus.com)
Date: Tue Jan 08 2002 - 10:45:26 MST
All right Bodie! We agree again - it's time for a few drinks now - I spose when I come
to England, I'll be calling you up!
The only problem I see is that, pardon the following analogy, Israel is like the very
bad child raised by his evil aunt. If we provide for Israels welfare by buying their
products, supporting their military and otherwise pumping money into their system, we
effectivly give them the capability to abuse others. However, if we do not help them,
then I think that Israel would gradually but steadily fall in both wealth and power
until their enemies would be emboldened enough to attack and slaughter them to a man.
Basically I see it as a no win situation (for the most part). If we pull out, its only
a matter of time until we are reliving the holocaust as the Arab world crushes them.
The only option I see is:
1> A softening of the American guilt complex towards Israel
2> A willingness to stop giving ANY military assistance to Israel
3> A willingness to threaten all aid if Israel does not begin to act more willing to
give a little (the toughest one if you ask me - Israel is not used to being helpful to
others)
4> A US guarantee to protect Israel against invaders (necessary if Israel is not able
to protect itself - we don't need an Arab final solution to the Jews).
In other words - yes, we need to stop funding Israel!
Bill
Bodie wrote:
> Hi Bill
> I think it's amazing, I again agree with most of your post. However
> America can't wash it's hands of all responsibility for the wrongs of
> Israel just by saying 'we didn't do it'. By continuing to send all that
> aid to Israel, America may not be killing people directly, but it is
> supporting the killing of the Palistinians. If America withdrew finantial
> support for Israel then it's likely the Israeli government wouldn't be as
> harsh with the Palistinians and maybe then there could be some lasting
> peace settlement. As long as America continues to fund Israel I can't see
> this happening
>
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Bill Roh wrote:
>
> > I'll give you a little different perspective than the honorable Hermit.
> >
> > Aside from what the Hermit lists, some I agree with, and much I don't, my
> > observations speak to a much different reality - Political Correctness.
> >
> > Here in the Southwest United States, you will hear very little support for
> > Israel. Frankly, we don't care. It's only the demonization of the Palestinians
> > and the rest of the Arab world that has your average man willing to support
> > Israel. Where do they get demonized at? EVERYWHERE. In school we are taught
> > about the holocaust, but we are not told about how awful the German's were, but
> > how we should have helped sooner. It's become an issue of appealing to our
> > "guilt" and using that emotion to extort all the money they can from the
> > country. Neither the Republican party or Democrats will cross them for the
> > reason that there would be an anti-Semitic outcry. Here in the west, a
> > politician could probably survive the calls of anti-Semitism.
> >
> > Then I went to live in Boston
> >
> > Never in my life have I seen one group of people so willing to call foul at
> > every opportunity. When in Boston I would say that perhaps half the people I
> > knew were Jewish. About half of those were your average person (or I should say
> > very similar to myself). The other half fit every stereotype I have ever heard
> > of the American Jew. My Jewish boss fit the stereotype perfectly. He was out for
> > every penny he could get by any means, was very Israel centric, hated the Arabs,
> > etc... Once, for the Super bowl, he asked me to go buy a big screen TV on my
> > company credit card, then return the TV a few days after the Super bowl.
> > Basically making the set unsellable as new and costing the dealer hundreds of
> > dollars. Then, when I called him and that behavior "dishonest" and said that I
> > had more integrity than that, he suggested that I was insulting the Jewish
> > people and anti-Semitic. Well, if I wasn't before that comment, I was certainly
> > leaning that way afterwards. Suffice it to say that in my 5 years of Boston
> > Jewish person experiences, this type of behavior, behavior that I find
> > reprehensible, was a very frequent event. Even the Jewish people who were good
> > friends often displayed such "me first" attitudes frequently with one exception.
> > My friend Steve Black, whom I name specifically simply because he is such a good
> > friend and has demonstrated a selfless goodwill towards myself and family, proof
> > that there are good people everywhere one looks.
> >
> > I don't see any way that an East Coast politician could so much as suggest that
> > Israelis are murdering people as opposed to defending themselves and still have
> > a job 6 months later. It is a wealthy and powerful lobby preying on:
> > 1> Americans misplaced guilt about the holocaust
> > 2> America's inability to "pull out" of it's own bad decision making
> > 3> Playing the anti-Semitism card at any and every opportunity thereby making
> > your critics look racist.
> > 4> The knowledge that for the most part, Americas short memory plays into the
> > hands of Israelis in that we forget about most Israeli atrocities somewhere
> > between a week and a year later.
> > 5> Guilt again, this time though" "If anything happens to Israel, It's Americas
> > fault" (and sure enough there are people on this list who would blame the US if
> > Israel fell and will blame us if they thrive)
> >
> > And that reminds me: A GENERAL COMPLAINT! Every country and person are
> > responsible for the actions they take. Some say that "The US trained Bin Laden,
> > so it's their fault Osama is a killer".
> >
> > WRONG - Osama is responsible for himself. It was not our training the birthed
> > him, or taught him his hatreds. He is an independent individual. We gave him the
> > tools to fight a battle that was genuinely good. What he chose to do with those
> > tools afterwards is his choice. Think of all the world wide students who have
> > come to the US for their College Education - Should we get credit for their
> > discoveries and inventions? "Indeed - it's not Lee Su that discovered that
> > incredible alloy, it's MIT who trained him with a grant from the US Govt. It's
> > our discovery! Who cares that it was made in Taiwan, the inventor was trained in
> > the States, it's our fault!"
> >
> > Some would say: "The US gives money to Israel so the US is responsible for
> > Israelis actions" Again - poppycock. We give over 2 billion to Egypt too, are we
> > responsible for all the woes or good things in Egypt? NO.
> >
> > enough rambling I spose - I'm getting off topic. So to sum up in two sentences:
> > The USs support of Israel is based on the deep seated emotions of guilt and a
> > fear of Jewish verbal retaliation. Break the American Guilt cycle, and support
> > for Israel will stop.
> >
> > Best to you all
> > Bill
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