From: L' Ermit (lhermit@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue Jan 15 2002 - 02:36:34 MST
[Hermit 1] Yash, made an unreferenced quotation:
[Yash] The law of gravity was known to the ancient Indian astronomer
Bhaskaracharya. In his Surya Siddhanta he notes "Objects fall on the earth
due to a force of attraction by the Earth. Therefore the Earth, Planets,
Constellations, Moon and the Sun are held in orbit by attraction. In was not
until the late 17th century (1687), 1200 years later that Sir Isaac Newton
rediscovered the law of gravity."
[Hermit 1] Which I challenged:
[Hermit] I have also seen this ascribed to Aryabhatt by people with a
mission too. I have seen no <em>proof</em> for either assertion. So, knowing
that an assertion can be challenged, and that you have to have proof of
such, I would appreciate your providing it. Thank-you.
[Hermit 1] To which the Mermaid, ignoring the slew of proven fabrications,
came back with:
[Mermaid]Anyone who wishes to do research on *any* subject can do it if they
have the time and inclination. The book is available at amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0766107124/qid=1010960745/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1_1/103-1729755-8343845
[Hermit 1] /me points out to the Mermaid that this is called a non-sequitur
- just as the alleged claim in the Surya Siddhanta is a non-sequitur. It
does not follow. There is no "therefore" despite it being asserted (in
Yash's claim) and implied (in yours).
[Hermit 1] However Yash made the assertion that this is a quotation -
presumably a quotation of a translation - as it does not appear to me to be
written in Sanskrit. For it to be valid, Yash needs to provide at least the
page number, book title, author, publisher and year of publication cited
(although for the purpose the source chapter and line or verse would also be
useful), in order to support his quotation. I may check the translation once
I have the location - I have not the time, nor the inclination, nor the
resources to check <em>all</em> inflated claims, misrepresentations or
spurious bullshit cited by kooks on a mission from the gods or to inflate
the importance of their or somebody else's culture - or to read every book
published by some house of exotica (http://www.kessinger-publishing.com/ -
not exactly OUP) that either Yash or Mermaid asserts is relevant.
Particularly not while "Hindus believe that the Surya Siddhanta was produced
by devine [sic] revelation and came from Surya the Sun God."
[http://users.hartwick.edu/~hartleyc/hindu/suryahistory.html accessed
2002-01-11]
[Hermit 1] I am challenging this claim simply because I find it unlikely in
the extreme that a work which is as referenced and cited by "Indian
astronomers" as this one, which has been used by as many charlatans
(Jyotishi) as this one, where the members of both groups have probably heard
of gravity, where members of both groups would give their balls to find a
piece of information of any modern significance, where a purportedly good
annotated translation exists, and where members of both groups would
undoubtedly assume the purported quotation held vast significance, yet have
not realized this and shouted the news from the roof-tops as a "validation"
of their assertions of significance.
[Hermit 1] So I am suggesting that the most likely answer (given that Yash
(and Mermaid) are proven to (at best) engage in distortion) and particularly
as it seems that there is no prior art leading up to it, and no art
dependent upon it, by anyone, that this assertion is, like the other
assertions made by Yash and Mermaid which I could trivially show to be false
or incomplete and misleading, simply untrue.
[Hermit 1] If Mermaid or Yash assert that the claim is true, an accessible
reference should be cited to allow for independent validation of the claim.
[Hermit 1] Subsequently, Yash came back claiming that his quotation is cited
from the references he provided. Having perused those references, the only
one supposedly "citing" this is:
http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~anu/facts.html
The page acknowledges "These were taken from the Unserstanding [sic]
Hinduism booklet available from the magnificent Shri Swaminarayan Mandir in
Neasden, London, UK" - yet another religious source attempting to claim
scientific significance in order to bolster the believability of their
faith. As I have previously observed, this is not particularly persuasive.
Even more so, as like Yash, this page does not contain a citation but only
an unsupported assertion.
[Hermit 1] It should be further noted that none of the more rigorous sources
appear to make the claim proffered here and that Yash found it necessary to
quote this particular source which appears to have similar religious
objectives and motivations to misrepresent things as Yash himself. Virians
are invited to draw their own conclusions.
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