From: Bill Roh (billroh@churchofvirus.com)
Date: Wed Jan 23 2002 - 16:19:33 MST
Yes it is always toasty warm here!
There is never a bad time to join, but there are times when one might think so
upon first inspection. Build relationships here and these thoughts will fade.
atheism as dogmatic.... hummm.. Is it dogmatic to hold that 6+6 is 12? I mean
no matter how much evidence you bring to bear, I'll hold that viewpoint and win
every time. The atheism of a strong atheist is NOT a decision based on beliefs
or faith. It is based on the available evidence. This evidence is well studied,
well documented and consists of millions of bits of information, all leading to
the same conclusion: The gods and god concepts held by man are inventions of
man. There can be no doubt, based on the available evidence, that evolution is
real. There can be no doubt, based on the available evidence, that we are
evolving now - that all life we study is evolving into the new and has evolved
from previous forms. So far there are no exceptions anywhere that do not fit the
pattern. I am not saying that we know everything - but that every bit of
knowledge gleened leads to the same conclusions. No one argues that every
religious document ever penned was penned by man.
Now - as a strong atheist I must do my best not to delude myself. I have to go
with the evidence regardless of where it leads. If a Christian - let's be more
general - if a religious person says that they can prove their god's existence -
I will be glad to collect the data and evidence to support it. Have you ever
seen this done? Have you ever heard a pro god argument that forwards evidence?
probably not - but the first time they do, and the data is verified by the same
scientific method that we use to "prove" other things, then I will be will to
concede that perhpas there is a god - or more specifically, that perhaps the
person giving me the evidence has a god or something beyond current
understanding. I mean, after all, it's a very different matter to show that
there is some ethereal all powerful being - then proving that it is your creator
as well - for what would a god be if it is not my creator? An Alien I think.
Can there be dogmatic athiests - sure - but this is a personal flaw, not a flaw
of atheism. Certainly not all religious people are dogmatic. Many are willing to
say that man evolved in a process started by their god - and that process is
simply a mystery. For these people it is a matter of self preservation. They
need to protect the memes that hold their entire being together.
Nice to see you here Nicholas
Bill Roh
old timer here at the CoV
Nicholas Johns wrote:
> I agree.
> Like you, Chris, I'm a new member and have been watching for the last few
> days... although to be honest the sheer quantity of mails means that perhaps
> 90% goes unread. Is this a bad time to join? Or is it always toasty warm
> down with lucifer?
>
> I have a CoV related question for the group. Please forgive me if this has
> already been covered.
>
> The Virus site seems quite adamant that it represents an atheist viewpoint.
> And yet, one of the listed sins is dogmatism. Is not atheism not considered
> dogmatic?
>
> Nic.
>
> >From: "Chris Donaldson" <chrisdtx@texas.net>
> >Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
> >To: <virus@lucifer.com>
> >Subject: Re: virus: Kirk: Standing my ground
> >Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:21:41 -0600
> >
> >Will you please take this to personal email. I thought this mailing list
> >was
> >for exploring "Memetics, level 3, consciousness, the self, truth,
> >meta-discussion (talking about talking -- especially talking about talking
> >with email), belief and faith, the nature of religion and the meaning of
> >life".
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Mermaid ." <britannica@hotmail.com>
> >To: <virus@lucifer.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 12:55 PM
> >Subject: virus: Kirk: Standing my ground
> >
> >
> > > Ok. I'll give in.
> > >
> > > Let's take the case of your number one ally. I know Hermit's name,
> >address
> > > and phone numbers. I suppose I can easily find the address and phone
> >numbers
> > > of the members of CoV who own their own websites. But is it appropriate
> >to
> > > publish personal information without the permission of the person
> >involved?
> > > If we wanted to show the list who we really are and where we live, we
> >would
> > > surely mention it by our own volition. It's a simple issue, Kirk. I
> >cannot
> > > understand why you dont want to comprehend that.
> > >
> > > I dont like you a whole lot, but I still do condemn Yash's decision to
> >act
> > > on his childish impulse to 'report' you. Sure, I too uttered certain
> > > words..mostly in jest and to illustrate how tacky and unappealling
> >innuendos
> > > can be..The consequences of his actions are real, but both of you acted
> >on
> > > your childish and juvenile impulses. Both of you deserve to kneel down
> >and
> > > stare at the wall for naughtiness. Sometimes, there are certain
> >unwritten
> > > agreements amongst the members of a group. No, you didnt sign anything.
> >You
> > > can claim ignorance of such etiquette but upon violation of trust you do
> > > reveal what motivates and tickles you.
> > >
> > > As far as I am concerned, I find that I enjoy more freedom if I am a
> > > nameless, faceless blip on your screen because I *dont* want get
> >personal.
> > > That would imply that I have to do the 'friend' dance routine and it
> > > severely curtails my freedom to express how I really feel. This way, I
> >can
> > > bash you as freely as you can bash me. In the past, the knowledge that I
> >was
> > > Indian served as a tool for many in this list to divert geniune topics
> >of
> > > discussion. I dont want to be anonymous. But I would like to be
> >faceless,
> > > nameless, sexless and racially ambigious. I definitely dont want anyone
> >to
> > > know where I live or how I live or what I do for a living. Sure! You can
> > > find out a lot about a person from how they communicate and the things
> >they
> > > say if you listen very carefully. But, if one wished that to be common
> > > knowledge, dont you think they would have advertised it? If you are not
> > > invited, you dont go to the party.
> > >
> > > Of course, this is my opinion and everyone can have their own. But if
> >you
> > > act in a manner that doesnt match my expectation of a responsible member
> >of
> > > this forum, then you will be judged as irresponsible by me. Only by
> > > me...there are others here who might think differently.
> > >
> > > Mermaid.
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
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