From: ben (ben@machinegod.org)
Date: Fri Jan 25 2002 - 19:44:28 MST
That reminds me - Joe brought up the point that god could not be both
omnipresent and omniscient, because one requires an external frame of
reference relevant to an object to be properly 'scient' of it. Following
that line, it is then impossible for us, being within the Universe, to
properly comprehend same, is it not?
-ben
----- Original Message -----
From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
To: <virus@lucifer.com>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: virus: Kirk: Standing my ground
On 25 Jan 2002 at 18:03, Bill Roh wrote:
> This is not a correction to Joe - but it is a way to think around Joe. Our
> Universe exists. We know that. Because it exists, one cannot rule out that
it has
> not happened before - seperately or will elsewhere. (even though there is
no
> elsewhere - I know it's tough to grapple with). The problem is that we
cannot use
> our notions of time and place to describe it. If there are other Universes
there
> is no way to get there from here - exchange energy - or to even be aware
of their
> existence. Instead of thinking of the Universe as all that is, think of it
as all
> there is and all we could, at the best, ever know.
>
Right.
If there were any kind of effect or transfer from 'one' to the 'other',
'they'
would have to be considered as components of the single universe, by
definition, for universe means one world, or all that is the case.
For this reason, speculation concerning same is destined to be forever
sterile and unproductive.
>
> Bill
>
> joedees@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> > On 25 Jan 2002 at 16:45, David Hill wrote:
> >
> > > Couldn't the God add energy from outside AND remove similar energy.
Just
> > > moving things around from an orthagonal direction as it were. If this
was
> > > done, we the observers looking for second law violations couldn't tell
if
> > > the 2nd law had been violated (say on a microscopic scale) and
therefore it
> > > wouldn't have been. If God causes a 2nd law violation and nobody
notices,
> > > did it really happen? I know, I know it's old but it's a goodie.
> > >
> > Universe means never getting to say 'outside'.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com]On
Behalf
> > > Of ben
> > > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 3:32 PM
> > > To: virus@lucifer.com
> > > Subject: Re: virus: Kirk: Standing my ground
> > >
> > > <SNIP and I don't know what proper SNIPPING conventions are. I did
like
> > > Hermit's idea of mechanizing it, but can he get the project funded?>
> > >
> > > [Bill 0] Divine intervention would violate the 2nd law of
thermodynamics
> > >
> > > [ben 0] I don't follow that this is true.
> > >
> > > [Bill 1] It would voilate the 2nd because it means that energy from
outside
> > > the
> > > universe would be input into this universe. Which means that there
would be
> > > a
> > > surplus and a march away from entropy.
> > >
> > >
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Sep 25 2002 - 13:28:41 MDT