From: L' Ermit (lhermit@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Feb 08 2002 - 04:59:35 MST
[Dr. Sebby]....i've recently come to an incredibly un-P.C.
conclusion...brace yourselves: Hitler was the best thing that ever happened
to the Jews.
[Dr. Sebby] there, i said it. tell me im wrong....because of him they are no
longer much-despised pilgrims spread about the world, oft the target of
societal hatred(since they hold all others in quiet distain). they got a
country(albeit a poorly placed one for their personalities), endless
comiseration, an apparently unending and irrational degree of sympathy,
infinite martyrdom, public fear of being labelled an anti-semite(.."the poor
jews..." etc), and a modern post on the 'untouchables' list of world
political and social entities. after all, the insult of referring to someone
as "the Hitler" of this or that is wide-spread as the definition of
'evil'....which boosts the jews into quite an elevated and "sensitive"
position. everyone wants on their bandwagon...the local 'good ride' of
morality.
[hr]
[Hermit 1] I reluctantly disagree with you, and not just because a fun time
was not had by all.
[Hermit 1] Strange thing to cogitate. As a percentage of population, Hitler
did almost as good a job killing Roms ("Gipsies") as he did in exterminating
Jews. "Current estimates are that roughly 600,000 Roma were exterminated by
the Nazi's, roughly '1/4 to 1/3 of their numbers in all of Europe and as
much as 70% of those in areas where Nazi control had been established the
longest.'" But they don't have the same marketing service. Come to think of
it, they don't have a state of their own where they can oppress other people
either. Heck they don't even get given vast sums of money because their
grandparents were sterilized or executed. They don't even get noticed as
victims of genocide. In fact, in most of the world they are still
persecuted. But then, the Rom don't form a solid voting block in the US
either.
[quote]Since the end of the Second World War, Germany's record regarding the
Romani people has been less than exemplary. Nobody was called to testify in
behalf of the Romani victims at the Nuremberg Trials, and no war crimes
reparations have ever been paid to Roma as a people. Today, neo-Nazi
activity in Germany makes the Roma its prime target of racial violence.
The United States too, did nothing to assist Roma during or following the
Holocaust. Only ten percent of the hundreds of millions of dollars made
available by the United Nations for the survivors, and which the U.S.
Government was given the responsibility of disbursing, was set aside for
non-Jews, and none of that found its way to the Romani survivors, who number
today about 5,000. Roma were not mentioned anywhere in the documentation of
the U.S. War Refugee Board, which was able to save the lives of over 200,000
Jews. When the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council was established in 1980, no
Roma were invited to participate, and it only has one Romani member today.
Roma are barely a part of its Museum even now, being located in a corner on
the third-floor set aside for "other victims."[/quote]
[url]http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/genocide.htm[/url] (Followed from
[url]http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/holcaust.htm[/url] a really
interesting collection of documents)
[Hermit 1] So Hitler, alone was insufficient to create the situation. To
move the Jew from pariah to perfection required Hitler + brilliant marketing
+ shiny packaging + a US vote factor. The Jewish packaging is so shiny that
numerous people (not unsurprisingly mostly Jewish) don't want the Rom
touching their pretty "Holocaust Victim" label and deny that the Romani
genocide even occurred - just as Turkey was defended from charges of
genocide against the Armenians - because "Holocaust" is reserved for the
Jews.
[Hermit 1] Don't you love the subtlety of these, "The Holocaust was the
systematic persecution and annihilation of more than six million Jews as a
central act of state by Nazi Germany and its collaborators between 1933 and
1945. Although millions of others, such as Romani, Sinti (sic), homosexuals,
the disabled and political opponents of the Nazi regime were also victims of
persecution and murder, only the Jews were singled out for total
extermination"
[url=http://www.adl.org/frames/front_holocaust.html]Anti-Defamation League’s
website Accessed 2000-11[/url] and "The only defensible conclusion, the only
adequate encompassing judgment . . . is that in comparison to the ruthless,
monolithic, meta-political, genocidal design of Nazism vis-à-vis Jews,
nothing similar . . . existed in the case of the Gypsies . . . In the end,
it was only Jews and the Jews alone who were the victims of a total
genocidal onslaught in both intent and practice at the hands of the Nazi
murderers" ["Quantity and interpretation: Issues in the comparative
historical analysis of the Holocaust,", Steven Katz, "Remembering for the
Future: Papers to be Presented at the Scholars’ Conference, Supplementary
Volume", Oxford: Pergamon Press,1988, p213]
[Hermit 1] You see, it is quite clear that the Rom are evil beyond words or
as the Nazi's refered to them, [i]Lebensunwertesleben[/i] or "Lives unworthy
of life". We can see how they draw fire upon their own heads, we can see how
they are universally hated: "the Darmstadt city mayor who, in an address to
the municipal Sinti and Roma Council, said that their request for
recognition 'insults the honor of the memory of the Holocaust victims' by
aspiring to be associated with them (Anon., 1986)", "the editor of a Roman
Catholic magazine who recently wrote that Romanies are “with exceptions, a
lazy, lying, thieving and extraordinarily filthy people . . . exceedingly
disagreeable people to be around.”", "As I write, the Greek government is
already systematically removing Romanies by force and demolishing their
homes at the site of the next Olympic Games, just as Hitler did in Berlin in
1936 and the Spanish government did in 1992 in Barcelona.", "Romani women
were being involuntarily sterilized in Slovakia into the 1980s." and even
the fact that it was only in the 70s that Switzerland stopped kidnapping
their children. Source:
[url]http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/lewy.htm[/url] (aside from the
Swiss recollection which popped out of Hermit's brain).
[Hermit 1] This pretention to having been victims of genocide clearly puts
the Rom entirely beyond the pale, almost as evil as the population of Iraq,
and as Joe Dees has so kindly been explaining to us, we should be killing
their children to make them into better and friendlier people. Just the same
way as Hitler did to the Jews and the Jews are now doing to the Palestians.
It's called directed evolution and may just be the best way to "root out
'evil'" [President Bush II], wherever it may be found.
Regards
Hermit
Refer [url=http://www.romani.org/]Romani.org Home Page accessed
2002-02-06[url]
PS Nietzsche "will to power" refers entirely to the self. To
self-determination, to self-affirmation, to self-reliancy. I think that it
is his incredibly life-supporting philosophy and complete rejection of the
slave-mentality of Christianity, that appeals to so many of his supporters.
As to the charge that he was a "racist," the last few minutes of his life
affirm his detestation of anti-semitism - and in consequence, his dislike of
and alienation from his anti-semitic sister Elizabeth and her notorious
husband Bernhard Forster. Nietzsche's last act before his descent into the
terminal phase of "the general paralysis of the insane" was to attempt to
protect a horse that was being flogged by its master, by throwing his arms
about its neck. While doing this, he collapsed and had to be carried home.
When he revived, he scribbled a few brief, almost incoherent letters, and
shortly after entered the terminal tertiary neurological-syphilitic phase,
eventually dying in 1900. One of these letters, written to the Overbecks,
his friends, reveals a great deal about his attitude to anti-semitism (I
suspect that the ADL would reject this - or any other - defense).
[quote]To friend Overbeck and wife. Although you have so far demonstrated
little faith in my ability to pay, I yet hope to demonstrate that I am
somebody who pays his debts -- for example, to you. I am having all the
anti-Semites shot.[/quote] I consider it fairly conclusive.
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