From: elphTeq (hidden@lucifer.com)
Date: Fri May 24 2002 - 06:34:09 MDT
JT, welcome 8). I too, am a converted lurker. And while i find one of your statements valid:
I often see that many very intellectual people tend to form counter-beliefs rather than beliefs and embrace the power of science with a certain level of over-reliance and arrogance.
-but still, counter-beliefs are still beliefs all the same ie memes [and we know what these things can do ;P].
Your other comments on "spirtual abandonment", "spirit","The face of God", " The Truth" are metaphors of romanticised ideals ["being whole, complete, inside and out, discovering purpose, it all makes sense, higher powers that control it and understand it"]. And while they are appealing to my imagination, they are your internally-refracted concepts. We would not agree on the exact description of God's face, for example. They are not a shared, rational, reality.
Do i have a gaping void within me for not being spiritual? How big is it? How many beliefs/gods/holy books/commandments will it take to fill it? :)
I am not disagreeing with the fact that a certain belief, eg "Science", could be transmitted to the detriment of others - this has been observed. But the assertion that one belief makes me more cynical over not having another one is both a subjective argument and, a typical response of one meme when threatened by another [eg propaganda, slurs].
Regression to a time where ignorance was bliss [and where we were spiritually fulfilled, i presume, because humanity was without science] is wishful, but we cannot unlearn what we know.
Your melancholic perspective is that you see humanity and its heathens hurtling towards their doom; I see a successful species that is learning and coming to terms with its material and memetic reality in an incredible short period of history.:)
Two quickie articles that challenge some of your ideas, great scientists who believe in god [and are thus spiritual] :
great scientists who believed in god:
http://www.innercite.com/~tstout/cs/pog_a.shtml
Results of 1998 survey [its not the article i was looking for though:], where 40% of scientist respondents said "yes" to god/faith.
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm
Science and spirituality are more linked than you think, JT [i enjoyed your dramatic language though- i would like to see the apocalypse, but i have a gut feeling that humans will just adapt to whatever shite they put themselves into- and ultimately, survive.]. :)
---- This message was posted by elphTeq to the Virus 2002 board on Church of Virus BBS. <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=24837>
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