From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Thu Jul 25 2002 - 15:11:15 MDT
On 25 Jul 2002 at 14:41, Hermit wrote:
>
> A definitional issue from a consensus scientific (rather than a
philosophical) perspective.
>
> universe - all possible things real and imaginary - including our Universe
and other potential or actual universii.
>
> Universe - our universe. Everything which exists within our spacetime.
Ours is not necessarily the only Universe, but is the only Universe
which
we experience. Our Universe is bounded by spacetime, which is in turn
dependent on the existence of matter-energy to define a reference
frame.
Areas not having spacetime are not "outside the Universe"
(meaningless
for lack of a reference frame) but are simply undefined. However, they
are
part of the universe (supra). Spacetime was instantiated some Planck-
seconds after the quantum fluctuation, but it is incorrect to refer to
"before
the Universe existed" as that is again, simply undefined as there was no
spacetime and thus no time (needed to make before meaningful) .
>
> Other universii may exist (highly probable according to current quantum
and string theory, as well as most of the consensus cosmological
models)
but need not resemble ours in any way whatever, and may be forever
inaccessible to us except in thought experiments. Ask me when we
determine whether Hawking Radiation exists (it should) and whether
Hawking Radiation conveys information (probably)).
>
That would be other Universii; following your caps-or-not distinction,
there could be only one little-u universe.
>
> It seems to me, that attempting to define the "relative" aspects of our
Universe away, as attempted by Joe, fail under the definitional regime
above.
>
It seems to me that "forever inaccessible to us except in thought
experiments" entails nonrelationality. In such a case, lacking the
possibility of either empirical proof or disproof, such conjectures must
remain outside Popperian Falsifiability, and thus consigned to the realm
of belief, rather than that of knowledge.
>
> Regards
>
> Hermit
>
>
> ----
> This message was posted by Hermit to the Virus 2002 board on Church of Virus BBS.
> <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=25787>
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