From: Hermit (hidden@lucifer.com)
Date: Tue Jul 30 2002 - 02:21:32 MDT
[Hermit] Mermaid, reliable as ever I see...
[Mermaid] Charming. Two men discussing Pap smears.
[Hermit] Perhaps it is permitted. After all, are murderers better qualified to discuss penology than people who have not yet been convicted of a capital crime?
[Mermaid] As a member of the Vulva Federation,
[Hermit] Please never hide it. Indeed, why not post photos? It is no doubt, one of your charming attributes. No need to hide it under a bushel.
[Mermaid] I feel the need to drop my two cents.
[Hermit] Worth every penny no doubt :-)
[Mermaid] Bottomline: Safe sex. What is HPV? Among several other things, it is also genital warts. Some other types of HPV also facilitates abnormal cell growth in the cervix of the woman. One can be a carrier without showing any external signs. For the sake
of good health, here are some facts for the curious girls/women here...as well as for anyone who'd be interested.
[Mermaid] 1.Pap Smears = detection. Not prevention. HPV(and cancer causing HPV) can be avoided only with safe sex. Cancer can be prevented (sometimes, not always) with early detection through Pap Smears.
[Hermit] How is cancer "prevented"?
[Mermaid] 2.Once HPV enters the system, it will never get out.
[Hermit] According to current technology, this is correct.
[Mermaid] 3.The virus can reside in the system for several years and go undetected except when it (the cancer causing virus) turns up in abnormal pap smears.
[Hermit] Hmmm, the pap smear need not be abnormal. There are (expensive) DNA tests which can detect the virus in the absence of cell abnormalities.
[Mermaid] 4.While abnormal Pap Smears can facilitate early detection of some types of HPV infections leading to cervical cancer, practicing safe sex is the best insurance.
[Hermit] I'd say, "which may be indicative of an increased risk of cancer" rather than, "leading to cervical cancer".
[Mermaid] 5.Adolescents should refrain from engaging in sexual activities, esp intercourse, until they understand sex and safe sex. However 'logical' the statement, 'children are sexual too', might seem, sexuality can co-exist with abstinence.
[Hermit] My guess is that most people will never be "ready for sex" by this standard. Being practical, most US kids, are never formally exposed to the idea of "safe sex", as all that most schools here are teaching is abstinance. To show how effective this line is, most US kids are engaging in sex by 16 - and 25% of them have STDs before age 19 while 22% of girls will have had children by the same age. Safe sex means few partners, disease testing and condoms every time.
[Mermaid] 6.Condoms might provide *some* protection against the spread of HPV, but it only delays infection. The virus can also be spread through oral sex as it can turn up outside the condom...scrotum..anus..etc
[Hermit] Despite US propaganda to the contrary, condoms do not "delay" infection. While it is true that virii can migrate through condoms, they greatly reduce the total number of virii to which you can be exposed. This in turn allows a healthy immune system to deal with the influx.
[Mermaid] 7.While we are at it..let me also add that studies have shown that women who smoke have twice the risk of contracting cervical cancer. Nicotine and other tobacco components are known to turn up at high concentrations in cervical secretions.
[Hermit] True.
[Mermaid] 8.Immunity plays a big role in how HPV affects a person and how well they respond to treatment.
[Hermit] Very true.
[Mermaid] 9.Oral contraceptives also increase the chance of cervical cancer.(The Pill is not a gift. Ponder a whole lot before slipping into the pill mode.
[Hermit] Correct. Refer to Cervical cancer linked to use of contraceptive pill (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=25441)
[Mermaid] Personally, I support vasectomy or tubal ligation. Vasectomy is more sensible as the male has more sperm than the female has eggs in one lifetime. We bleed. They dont. Fuck'em. It would solve a lot of problems with one snip, but that is a whole different topic)
[Hermit] Actually, safe sex refers to the use of a physical barrier (e.g. condom or femidom properly worn) combined with a spermicide (foam or pessary) to prevent conception and infection.
[Hermit] If a long term relationship is envisaged, after testing for STDs, the diaphram is a good solution which will not protect from STDs, but will reduce the probability of pregnancy without being as intrusive as other barrier methods.
[Hermit] In regards to a vasectomy, my advice is think carefully, do your research, and then don't do it.It has been implicated with numerous andrological problems including certain cancers refer e.g. http://www.goldcrossmedical.com/androscreen/vasectomy.htm. If vasectomy were a medication, it would have been withdrawn years ago. As for tubal litigation, the possibility of complications and concerns about nosocomial infections, particularly in the light of the appearance of globally antibiotic resistant Staphylococcus aureus should cause you to think very carefully about this option. I don't recommend it. If a person has had as many children as desired, the loop is one relatively safe option (infection risk so don't use it unless you are finished having kids), and the pill, when started late in life, appears to reduce some kinds of cancer (breast in particular)and bears far lower risks than when taken earlier in life.
[Mermaid] 10.A Pap Smear every year is suggested for women who are sexually active. Once in three-five years is recommended if there has been no abnormal results in the past. It is possible for a HPV infected mother to pass it on to her child. Unless the Pap Smear turns abnormal, the procedure neednt be repeated for any time period from one to three years. Since Pap Smears have the tendency to turn abnormal when there are minor infections or
irritations, you would be called in for another Pap Smear to determine if the cervical cells are normal. An abnormal result doesnt necessarily mean the C word. However, the physican would be the best person to tell you how often to have the test. Once in three months? Hmm..
[Hermit] I class this as really insane advice. Most medical advisors will recommend that all women begin having regular Pap smears once they become sexually active or reach 18 years of age. After three normal tests, once a year, Pap smears are then recommended every two years unless additional risk factors are involved. Women should continue to have regular Pap smears for life...even after they have had their children, reached menopause or are no longer sexually active.
[Hermit] When a significant risk factor exists - and HPV is a significant risk factor, then more frequent tests are recommended. For patients showing antibodies to HPV, three monthly tests are the current guidelne from the Uni Iowa Hospital (recognized as a leading oncology center) Department of Oncology. Six monthly tests would result in a high probability that 50% of cancers would only be detected in late stage one, early stage two, with an approximately 40% reduction in 5 year survival prospects. (From a presentation at a conference I attended about 2 months ago)
[Mermaid] 11.False negative tests are common. This is when women are told they are ok when smear tests show a cancer. False negative tests can be avoided only with regular Pap Smears. If one hasnt had a Pap Smear in the past...say..five years, the incidence of a false negative is high.
[Hermit] See my reply to [Mermaid 10]. Regular testing (once every two years minimum, once a year optimum, once every six months for medium risk patients (smokers, family history, long term pill usage, early sex), once every three months for patients with significant risk factors (HPV, HIV).
12.On the other hand, there are also false positives. Abnormal results can be produced from anything to an irritation to a minor infection. Only to ascertain early detection of cancer in the event of an abnormal verdict(which is slow to spread, hence can be avoided) will a second Pap Smear be conducted.
[Hermit] Today, abnormal results can be checked via DNA analysis. While this is expensive ($2500 - $3500), for medium- and high-risk patients, the benefit of very early detection and elimination of any cancer is more than repaid in reduced treatment costs and a vastly better prognosis should cancer develop.
[Mermaid] Misc info and opinions:
[Mermaid] Cervix is the lower part of the uterus that opens into the vagina.
[Hermit] Nods
[Mermaid] If one has never been sexually active, one probably doesnt need Pap Smears.
[Hermit] Bull shit. The highest risk factor for death from cervical cancer is not having regular pap smears.
[Mermaid] A speculum is inserted into the vagina to see the cervix. With a spatula, the cervix is scrapped for cells which will be tested for any abnormality.
[Hermit] Perhaps in some primitive societies (which I don't know of). In any modern medical setting, a cotton swab, like an oversized q-tip, supplied in a sterile container, is used to wipe the cervix, replaced in the container and sent for processing. Most labs today use computerized microscopes, which will examine all the cells present and automatically flag possible anomolies for closer examination. Neural networks are now being used to perform analysis, and these are proving far more reliable
[Mermaid] A Pap Smear is not painful. It is, however, very unpleasant. Dont be shy. Tell everyone and be a bitch. Dont hold back. They didnt have to spread their legs. You had to. On that day, everyone who wants to share your oxygen is pondscum.
[Hermit] LOL. According to everyone I have known who has experienced them and discussed it with me, "mild discomfort" is the worst that can be expected.
[Mermaid] If you have trouble getting pregnant, it would be a good idea to test for HPV.
[Hermit] Actually, testing both partners for all STDs is one of the first things that any reproductive specialist will recommend if the male partner is producing competent sperm.
[Mermaid] Not all types of Human Papilloma Viruses(there are over 60) causes cervical cancer.
[Hermit] As already discussed with Nurgle, there is no evidence that HPV causes cancer. It is however so frequently found in association with cervical cancer, that it is taken as a strong risk factor. As the article posted reflected, we have identified virii with many different protein sequences which belong to this family, and they have different risk frequencies associated with them. All are, so far as I am aware, implicated in increased cervical cancer risk.
[Mermaid] It is a popular myth that there is less risk of a woman contracting cervical cancer if she has sex with a circumcised man.
[Hermit] Much as I am with the Mermaid on the value of the foreskin (after all, it contains over 50% of all the nervous tissue in the infant penis, her information is outdated). Refer "Circumcision cuts cervical cancer rates",NewScientist.com news service, 2002-04-11 (http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992157) (I still don't recommend it. I strongly recommend teaching safe sexual habits instead (which means, if followed, that the risk is not increased in the slightest.)
[Mermaid] Such rumours will be enthusiastically and widely spread by haters-of-baby-foreskin. There are other ways to torture men than by depriving them of their foreskin. Circumcision is not one of them. Save the foreskins. They are tasty.
[Hermit] Yada, yada, yada.
[Mermaid] Finally, if you have to die, you have to die. It is all about one's attitude towards life or death. One can quit smoking, stop having wild and wanton sex and stop contributing to their physician's Beemer for Son Fund only to save the last few miserable years when the body wont be obedient and the flesh becomes weak. Or...one can live the sinful way and spend the rest of their
short lives paying through their noses for a decaying and rotting and failing body. Either way, we are fucked the moment we are born. Lets just get on with it.
[Hermit] Quite inspiring, I'm sure. Oh yes, this is the opinion section. Did we get our 2c worth above?
[Mermaid] and yea..one more thing...Educate yourself.
[Hermit] Amen.
---- This message was posted by Hermit to the Virus 2002 board on Church of Virus BBS. <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=25841>
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