From: Mermaid . (britannica@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Aug 01 2002 - 11:21:58 MDT
[Walpurgis]My parents were good enough to leave accessible books on the
shelf when I was a child
[Mermaid]I wish more parents did the same with their kids. I have never
believed that books bring any harm. Knowledge is Power.
[Walpurgis] Can most adults do this now? Many negative consequences
necessitate outside help.
[Mermaid]Hmm..probably not. But adults have access to more resources while
children are more restricted in their search for solutions.
[Walpurgis] I'd rather think of them as symbiotic beings. Adults that don't
learn from their children, who lives aren't enriched in turn (which
parasites don't do for their hosts), have a very bad relationship with their
child IMO.
[Mermaid]True. Thats a very interesting pov.
>[Walpurgis]Though you oppose penetrative sex for the young (which
>makes some sense as a general rule, given the immature state of their
>bodies), you seem to agree that safe non-penetrative sex is fine:
>
>[Mermaid]I agree to no such thing. I have no intention of running the
>lives of pimply, horny teenagers with my ideas. 'Safe non penetrative'
>sex, if it involves exchange of bodily fluids is not appropriate
>unless the child(or teenager or adult, if you wish to call them
>that)understands the act which, of course, must be consensual.
[Walpurgis]How could safe non-penetrative sex involve the exchange of fluid?
Even safe penetrative sex won't let you do that!
[Mermaid]I did not know what you exactly meant by non penetrative sex(hence
it's within quotes). The criteria being that any kind of invasive physical
contact must first eliminate exchange of fluids unless the child is
sufficiently aware of the risks and rules of the game. The second, of
course, is informed consent.
> [Mermaid]I dont know what is being inferred, but what should be
> inferred is this...all children dont mature at a certain age. By
> allowing sexual freedoms for all,
[Walpurgis] Its not about freedom for all. Its about changes in adults
attitudes to sex, and moving away from legalism/generalisation.
[Mermaid]If children grow up with awareness and a respectable amount of
caution, they will be wonderful as adults and parents themselves. Having
experienced a less than cloistered childhood, these parents will be able to
provide their children an enjoyable childhood. The truth is that any attempt
to 'free' children have resulted in children behaving exactly like children.
There might be exceptions, but the truth is there is , despite treating
children like individuals, putting them on the pill or by distrubuting
condoms etc, there is still a scary number of teen pregnancies, STDs,
instances of date rape, violence and general ignorance etc. It is
unacceptable to let children loose when they have proved again and again
that they sometimes do not deserve the freedoms granted to them just as it
is unacceptable to place them in a prison called home. However, every child
is different. It is the responsibility of the parent to recognise what makes
their child different from the rest and let their special freedoms trickle
according to the natural ability of the child to experience and absorb the
gift of free choice without abusing it. This is why its true that good
parents make good children who in turn make good adults. Like you mentioned
before, it is imperative to educate adults more than children.
[Walpurgis] Good stuff, good health advice. I was reading a while ago about
how meditation can help kids with emotional expression too.
[Mermaid]Meditation is good as long as it isnt instructed by cult figures. I
meditate for 10 minutes in the morning and just after sundown myself. It
doesnt increase my concentration or memory or even complement my emotional
expression(!!!), but it does give me my 'alone' time where I can plan my day
and allocate time units to jobs. It gives me control over my time and I can
reflect on how the day has gone by...
[Walpurgis] Indeed. I'd rather a sexual revolution for *everyone*.
[Mermaid]You think? We'd all end up as a quivering mass of naked flesh and
then there would finally be peace on earth!! True?...:)
> [Mermaid]I dont know if sex stunts growth.
[Walpurgis] It doesn't. It's a threat used to stop children having sex.
[Mermaid]I have never heard of anything like that, but I'll take your word
for it. I have been talking to a couple of men since this discussion began
and they all admit that there is a lot of horror stories about
mastrubation.(it didnt stop them) Interestingly, the two women I questioned
do not recall mastrubating as children and prefer sex to mastrubation as
adults. I suppose sex would be a bigger monster than mastrubation as far as
the horror stories go...
> [Mermaid]You are right. I do not expect strait-laced kids when I mean
> responsible. When they are no longer dependent on others to clear
> their messes, children are absolutely free to make their messes.
> Unfortunately, having a back up to clean up one's messes extracts a
> price that is parental control.
[Walpurgis] Why not parental help rather than control?
[Mermaid]Allow me to narrate a theory I have had for years...There is a
Jekyll and Hyde syndrome in parents. On one hand, there is this instinct to
'put their kids out there' because they are proud of their genes and want it
to have the best chance to survive. I suspect that it is one of the main
reasons we have so many mothers here who dress up their little girls like
professional cocksuckers. On the other hand, there is also the fear that the
very act of advertising their genes would attract inferior partners or
rather..unworthy partnering genes
which causes them to 'protect' their children. I have also wondered if
parents secretly resent that the fruit of their toil and sweat is being
tasted by someone else. Parenthood is complex. It has equal or uneven parts
of powerplay, affection, jealousy, pride and entrepreneurship. Eventually,
it all boils down to ownership. A parent feels that he or she 'owns' the
child. Children grow by themselves if you feed them anything barely edible
and sufficiently nutritious. It must be quite an anti-climax for parents who
would rightfully feel let down. Hence parenthood is elevated and considered
holy and downright divine. Sacrifice is a very important word in every
parent's dictionary. It is only a thinly disguised term for 'you owe me'.
When that message doesnt get through and guilt doesnt sprout as it was
suppose to...parents begin to control their children. This is all, of
course, a vague theory. I think its all sub-consciously executed and no
parent picks up a sheet of paper and a pencil and jots down his Grand Plan.
You got to feel sorry for them, I suppose...but it IS their choice to breed
and every action has an equal and opposite reaction...(unless you use a
condom)
[Walpurgis] "Means" for who? Different people define and understand
parenthood differently (as we seem to). How would such advice be given?
[Mermaid]A psychological profile of the would-be parents. A study of the
family tree for at least three generations past. Their financial status to
determine if they can actually afford to raise children. What are their
expectations from their children..etc...I havent given it sufficient
thought...now I will ponder over it...thanks.
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