From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Sat Aug 03 2002 - 10:42:49 MDT
On 3 Aug 2002 at 9:26, rhinoceros wrote:
>
> [Joe Dees]
> In this case, those who do so have the express authority of the Koran
> behind them; if an Islamic is NOT a fundamentalist, (s)he is an
> apostate, for unlike the Bible, which was supposedly INSPIRED by God
> and is in nonfundamentalist Christian circles considered to be
> leavened with human error, the Koran (literally, the Recitation) was
> directly DICTATED bu GOD's chosen messenger angel to Mohammed, and is
> therefore literally true for all true Muslims.
>
> [rhinoceros]
> Even so, if you take into account the linguistic dynamics, this does
> not make much sense. The words may be the same but the meaning shifts
> under communication pressure. Then, one can read the words either in a
> specific contemporary context or in the "prophet's" context. Also, as
> new things and concepts are always being developed, one has to
> improvise ways to make the new concepts fit to the Koran's words.
>
I doubt if any amount of hermeneutic gymnastics can rednder the following
Qu'ran passages benevolent or nonviolent:
K.4:74, 'Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world
for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is
slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward'. K.4:76,
'Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith
fight in the cause of evil.' K.5:54, 'O believers, take not Jews and
Christians as friends, they are friends of each other. Those of you who
make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust
people.' K.9:29, 'Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last
Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger
(Muhammad), nor acknowledge the religion of Truth (Islam), even if
they are People of the Book (Jews and Christians), until they pay the
tribute and have been humbled.' K.47:4, 'When you meet the
unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter
among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or
ransom, until the war lays down its burdens.'
I doubt if you can do so, either.
> And that is exactly what is really happenning; muslims have developed
> this into an intricate art in the service of their daily needs. We
> have some "traditional" muslim communities in Greece, and I have heard
> how a legal dispute is resolved: each one of the adversaries goes to a
> religious authority and asks for a favorable phrase from the Koran
> supporting their case. And of course the judge, being human, may
> resolve the case according to a political agenda, established ways of
> social conduct, his own preconceptions or fears, or even common sense.
>
> In a bigger scale, global economics are so intertwined that some
> Islamists cannot harm the "infidels" without causing harm to
> themselves (e.g. Saudi Arabian oil sheiks), while others can if they
> are pushed hard enough. It is all too human.
>
The Qu'ran, as a document, is a perfect religio-ideological vehicle for
terrorism, and is being used that way. Some Saudi oil sheiks are taking our
money and using some of it to fund both Al-Quaeda and the ideological
extremist indocrinating madrasa schools.
>
> ----
> This message was posted by rhinoceros to the Virus 2002 board on
> Church of Virus BBS.
> <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;thread
> id=25921>
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