From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Sun Aug 04 2002 - 11:22:15 MDT
On 4 Aug 2002 at 9:04, Casey wrote:
>
> [rhinoceros]
> So many questions and no answers. Was Jenin a massacre or just
> warfare? How many Pelestinians and how many Israelis were killed? Did
> the Palestinians really kill each other? Why didn't the Israelis
> permit the UN to check? Is it important that the Israelis went to
> residential Jenin with tanks and helicopters? Why do the Israelis and
> the Americans accuse Arafat of terrorism and still they let him be?
> Why is he also a Peace Nobelist. And most importantly, am I stupid?
>
> The attempts to answer the massacre question were in fact more
> questions. Let me add one more: Legally or morally a massacre? If what
> the UN report is talking about is the legal aspect, is there any
> theoretical possibility that Israelis may stand a trial? No.
> Palestinians? Possibly. Why? Figure it out for yourselves. If so,
> isn't it meaningless to talk about whether it was a massacre or not?
> If the "extended" right to self defence may be freely used to override
> any law, what is the meaning of any legal definition? What is the
> message then? This one I can answer: Fight or die (and of course, or
> both).
>
> [Joe Dees]
> Or make peace, where Israeli West Bank and Gaza settlements are
> evacuated and Palestinian suicide bomers stop flowing towards
> partying Israeli teenagers, weekend shoppers and bus commuters. That
> is my hope.
>
> [Casey]
> Finally! Thank you rhino and Joe.
>
> [Casey]
> This thread has been tumultuous and ear-splitting at times. But, the
> solution that we all seek is the same, so it seems from my
> perspective. The methodology to reach the conclusion is where we
> differ. But, at least the end result is a commonality between the
> members here.
>
> How do we get to this solution? That is yet to be seen. Both sides,
> Israeli and Palestinian, are walking down the same paths they've
> treaded before. Palestinians strike at the heart of Israel with
> terrorist attacks using suicide bombers and armed militants. Which
> prompts army incursions, arrests, and airstrikes by the Israeli
> government in response. Loop it and repeat.
>
> This is what troubles me. One side uses the other's actions as a
> means to repeat that long walk. And vice versa. If one side, or
> the other, cannot disavow themselves from this process then there will
> be no solution to this current predicament.
>
> I'm not sure which side should step outta the batter's box and walk it
> off, so to speak.
>
> I'm inclined to say it should be the Palestinians. Not because I
> feel they are wrong. There isn't a right or wrong in this situation.
> It's a matter of life or death for innocent civilians among, both,
> the Israelis and Palestinians.
>
> The continued armed responses by both sides seems to only fuel the
> flames that are on this raging inferno.
>
> Sharon and Arafat are not the keys to peace. Never have been, and
> never will. Sharon is detested among the Palestinians for his
> actions as an Israeli general and later as Minister of Defense during
> the Lebanese occupation (not sure of the actual title of his post).
> Arafat was leader of the PLO; an organization that was created to
> defeat the Israelis through terroristic means. Finally, Arafat and
> Sharon have had deep animosity for one another since the late
> 70's/early 80's.
>
> Seemingly, their perspectives of each other have not changed since
> those early days. But, who is going to step up and take the heat?
> Neither one will sacrifice their standings in the public eye.
> Neither one wants to appear to be "weak" or capitulate for attempting
> to attain any sense of normal relations. Arafat and Sharon are not
> only hurting their causes in the eyes of the world, but their
> positions within their communities, as well.
>
> That said, I cringe at the thought of who would replace them if they
> were to be replaced in the near future. My suspicions are that any
> person, within the leadership of both govts, are not willing to settle
> these differences peacefully. Granted there are individuals who seek
> peace within both govts, but their voices are muted everytime another
> attack occurs, whether it be from one side or the other. The fiery
> rhetoric that spills from both camps drowns out the attempts at
> bridging these two fiercely passionate peoples.
>
> What all this boils down to is a repeated cycle of violence. Kinda
> like what ya see in seedier parts of Los Angeles, CA. Rival gangs,
> Crips and Bloods, kill one another (and innocents) through gangland
> shootings for a stake in the drug trade and the turf these guys want
> to have. However, their is a positive side to all of this. In many
> of those seedy communities what you've seen is the people (normal
> people like you and me) taking it upon themselves to take back the
> neighborhoods they call home. Perhaps, if this method could be
> adopted by those in Israel and Palestine we might see the beginnings
> of a resolution.
>
> Neither side wants to see their children killed off one after another.
> And, they may not care that their "neighbors" kids are being killed
> off. But, once both sides realize that their children are being led
> to the slaughter for the actions of, both, the Israelis and
> Palestinians, then neither side will be able to sleep at night without
> the fear that their children will die the following day.
>
> Here's hoping that tonight they all sleep well.
>
I am halfway willing, in spite of all the self-righeous indignation, howls
of outrage, and rivers of condemnatory bile that would ensue, for the
US to IMPOSE such a solution (West Bank and Gaza Israeli
settlements forcibly evacuated, members of the terror organizations
hunted down and killed, boundary lines set according to UN resolutions
224 and 338 and the Oslo accords and rigorously patrolled) on these
two gangs of bloodthirsty children - just so the world can sleep more
peacefully at night.
>
> Casey
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> ----
> This message was posted by Casey to the Virus 2002 board on Church of
> Virus BBS.
> <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;thread
> id=25915>
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