From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Sat Aug 10 2002 - 16:44:46 MDT
On 10 Aug 2002 at 15:55, Hermit wrote:
>
> US SOLDIERS WERE TOLD TO SPECIFICALLY KILL WOMEN AND CHILDREN
>
> Source: Pravda (http://english.pravda.ru/world/2002/06/03/29626.html)
> Based on an Article in the Ithaca Journal
> (http://www.theithacajournal.com/index.html) Authors: Kandea Mosley
> Dated: 2002-06-03
>
> The stench of decaying flesh hung heavy in the air as soldiers passed
> blown-up bunkers and caves. As they moved down an L-shaped corridor,
> the stiffened limbs of a Taliban soldier jutted from beneath piles of
> rock and dust in the sweltering afternoon air. Ripped-up pages from
> the Koran, and booklets describing ways to kill Americans, littered
> the tree-lined valley that had been bombarded by U.S. air strikes
> before their arrival.
>
> These recollections, marking the intensity of every hour of every day
> felt in combat, typify the memories that resurface for veterans of
> World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War and other military combat
> this Memorial Day weekend. For Army Private Matt Guckenheimer, who
> recently returned home to Tompkins County after two missions in
> Eastern Afghanistan, processing these memories and readjusting to
> American life has just begun. Guckenheimer, who helped clear the
> L-shaped valley near the border of Pakistan whose twists and turns are
> burned into his memory, explained the nature of his company's mission.
> In doing so, he spoke candidly about the reality of war. In an April
> interview with The Ithaca Journal at his family's Cayuga Heights home,
> Guckenheimer, 22, shared his experiences during Operation Anaconda. He
> was sent on March 6 in a company of more than 100 soldiers to
> participate in the largest U.S.-led ground engagement in Eastern
> Afghanistan. "We were told there were no ! friendly forces," said
> Guckenheimer, an assistant gunner with the 10th Mountain Division at
> Fort Drum. "If there was anybody there, they were the enemy. We were
> told specifically that if there were women and children to kill them."
>
> Taliban al-Qaida soldiers had already been given about two weeks to
> surrender when U.S. soldiers were ordered to demolish their last
> strongholds and finish the operation, he said. Guckenheimer said he
> loved learning about tanks and guns and watching battle scenes on TV
> when he was young. As a teen-ager, he said, his desire to prepare
> himself to confront the challenges of war intensified despite his
> family's disapproval. After attending Ithaca High School his freshman
> year, he transferred to a boarding school in Bath, Maine. His parents,
> Meredith Kusch and John Guckenheimer, attended Oberlin College in Ohio
> and the University of California at Berkeley during the Vietnam era.
> They used to joke that they would disown him if he ever joined the
> military, he said.
>
> "They're just about the most passive people you could want," he said
> with a smile. "I just ended up not being that way." Guckenheimer said
> he believed his parents had been indoctrinated with a skewed view of
> the Vietnam War that led them to undervalue war's place in defending
> the United States. But he said he has noticed a shift in their outlook
> since Sept. 11. John Guckenheimer agreed, to an extent, with his son's
> assessment. "I think it was necessary for the U.S. to respond
> militarily to the events of Sept. 11, but I don't feel completely
> comfortable with the way the war in Afghanistan is being conducted,"
> he said. He thinks that the United States is settling into a long and
> entrenched war in the region, and might repeat the mistakes the
> Russians made there.
>
> As a Cornell math professor, he said, he has worked with members of
> the armed forces and has held them in high regard. Regarding the U.S.
> military as an institution, and his and his wife's opinion of it, he
> said, "I don't know that our attitudes in general have changed since
> Matt joined." Matt Guckenheimer said his first combat experience in
> Afghanistan was enough. "I know that I can get through it, so the
> challenge is gone," Guckenheimer said. "I don't think wanting to put
> yourself in that position is really healthy to begin with." Because of
> the effectiveness of earlier U.S. military operations in Afghanistan,
> the number of Taliban soldiers killed during Guckenheimer's missions
> was minimal, he said. He knew of only about 10 enemy fighters who were
> killed, he said. "Most of it (the difficulty of the missions) wasn't
> as much the enemy as it was the elements," he said. Adjusting to the
> high altitude and low oxygen levels of the region was a struggle.
> Layers of Gortex and flee! ce couldn't shield them from the cold
> nights. They would wake up to find their canteens covered in ice, he
> said.
>
> When he returned to the United States after spending a month either on
> missions or at the Bagram military base, Guckenheimer said, he
> remembered how alienated Americans are from each other. After living
> in a Third World country, where people he didn't know would smile or
> say hello to him on the streets, it was jarring to return home, where
> contact among strangers is mostly shunned. "These people who lived
> through life, they seemed to be more grounded," he said. Coming home
> was like walking back into a "clueless" society where over-consumption
> is commonly regarded as the route to happiness, he said. He said
> although he only interacted with Afghan men, those he spoke to looked
> forward to women re-entering public life. On the whole, he said,
> residents of the towns attached to the Bagram base had been able to
> achieve a measure of happiness despite living amid constant war.
> Guckenheimer returned to Fort Drum on April 24. He said he looked
> forward to their next assignment and woul! d like to serve in Sinai,
> Egypt.
>
It WOULD be a Pravda article. The tone sounds like something that
would have come out during the Brezhnev era. As far a soldiers being
specifically instructed to kill women and children, I do not believe that
such instruction was given - unless it was perceived that they were
armed. ANY armed combatants are legitimate targets in a battle
situation by the simple doctrine of self-defence. A bullet fired by a
woman or a child is just as deadly as one fored by a hardened Al
Quaeda mujaheddin, if the aim is true, which reminds me about what
Goldwater said about gays in the military: that he didn't care whether
they were straight or not, as long as they could SHOOT straight.
> ----
> This message was posted by Hermit to the Virus 2002 board on Church of
> Virus BBS.
> <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;thread
> id=26017>
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