From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Sat Aug 10 2002 - 18:39:25 MDT
On 10 Aug 2002 at 18:07, Hermit wrote:
>
> [Joe Dees] It WOULD be a Pravda article. The tone sounds like
> something that would have come out during the Brezhnev era. As far a
> soldiers being specifically instructed to kill women and children, I
> do not believe that such instruction was given - unless it was
> perceived that they were armed. ANY armed combatants are legitimate
> targets in a battle situation by the simple doctrine of self-defence.
> A bullet fired by a woman or a child is just as deadly as one fired by
> a hardened Al Quaeda mujaheddin, if the aim is true, which reminds me
> about what Goldwater said about gays in the military: that he didn't
> care whether they were straight or not, as long as they could SHOOT
> straight.
>
> [Hermit] I think the key is "I do not believe that such instruction
> was given" - or more succintly, I don't want to believe... And not
> being able to refute the story, you attempt to disparage the source.
>
> [Hermit] I followed up on this story which appears to have been
> ignored by the US press but made headlines elsewhere. The original
> interview ran in the Ithaca Journal
> (http://www.theithacajournal.com/news/stories/20020525/topstories/3802
> 84.html). In an April interview with The Ithaca Journal at his
> family's Cayuga Heights home, [Hermit Private Matt Guckenheimer]
> Guckenheimer, 22, shared his experiences during Operation Anaconda. He
> was sent on March 6 in a company of more than 100 soldiers to
> participate in the largest U.S.-led ground engagement in Eastern
> Afghanistan.
>
> "We were told there were no friendly forces," said Guckenheimer, an
> assistant gunner with the 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum. "If
> there was anybody there, they were the enemy. We were told
> specifically that if there were women and children to kill them."
>
> [Hermit] I don't think it gets much clearer than that.
>
> [Hermit] Presumably as a result of a suggestion from above, he wrote a
> follow-up letter
> (http://www.theithacajournal.com/news/stories/20020604/opinion/440857.
> html) which didn't improve matters one whit:Recently your paper quoted
> me as saying that my unit was ordered to kill women and children. I
> would like to clarify this quote and provide more context.
>
> Prior to the operation, we were made aware of the fact that the
> hostile forces of the Whaleback might include women and children. In
> that event, if those women and children showed hostile intent, we were
> ordered to kill them as hostile forces, just like any other hostile
> force we encountered. However, this does not mean that we were ordered
> to slaughter noncombatants such as babies.
>
> We were further informed that some of these children are trained
> starting at a very young age to be soldiers. Knowing this, we could
> not afford to just dismiss them as noncombatants.
>
> However, I do not want anyone to get the idea that we were ever sent
> out to kill anyone and anything that moves. We are better than that,
> both as a military unit and as a society.
>
> Matt Guckenheimer
>
> [Hermit] No doubt you still "don't want to believe."
>
Actually, it sounds like his clarification is asserting exactly what I was
asserting; namely that an armed human in a battle zone, regardless of
age or gender, must be considered a combatant, and if that combatant
is on the enemy side, which is indubitable if all your forces are
uniformed and the person in question is not, it is a solder's job to kill the
enemy unless they surrender (an option this particular enemy doesn't
seem to offer ITS allegedly subhuman infidel foes - see terrorist letter).
This perspective was painfully learned in the Vietnam conflict, where
Vietnamese women and children were often employed to kill US troops
who did not expect an attack from them. Once you see the rifle or the
grenade, you'd better not hesitate, regardless of who's holding it - or
you might not live to hesitate twice.
> ----
> This message was posted by Hermit to the Virus 2002 board on Church of
> Virus BBS.
> <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;thread
> id=26018>
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