From: Hermit (hidden@lucifer.com)
Date: Mon Aug 12 2002 - 14:44:51 MDT
<snip>
[Hermit] The above was opinion. Your opinion is that we should break International law, discard treaties and basically behave like barbarians in pursuit of an impossible vision of security. Mine is that we should not. Quite legitimate to disagree.
[Hermit] On the other hand the following is not opinion, but a widely published lie.
[Joe Dees] In other words; accept the overwhelming majority of the territories and allow the fate of the rest to be determined by further negotiations, or walk away and begin an intifadeh.
[Hermit] Here is the map used at the Camp David Meeting: http://www.mediamonitors.net/images/campdavid.pdf and here http://www.mediamonitors.net/gushshalom1.html from Gush Shalom is a discussion about "The Reality of Barak's "Generous" Offers." with additional maps. To quote from it "The West Bank and the Gaza Strip, captured in 1967, comprise 22% of pre-1948 Palestine. When the Palestinians signed the Oslo Agreement in 1993 they agreed to accept only these 22% and recognize Israel within the Green Line borders." At Camp David, Israel demanded a further 10% of the territory to enable them to keep the "settlers" they have illegally placed in Palestinian territory as well as an indefinite mandate over a further 10%. In addition, the Israelis insisted on control over water (and they are taking 80% of the water extracted from the Palestinian areas), defense (leaving Palestine as a "homeland" within Israel and a security system that would have managed all Palestinian travel between the "homeland areas" - somethin
g which Palestinians understand all to well. That was not what was agreed at Oslo. So the Israelis were the ones playing "bait and switch."
[Joe Dees] Clinton had it right; Arafat called him a great man, to which Clinton responded, "No, I am a failure, and you have made me one." He then called George W. and specifically warned him that Arafat could not be successfully negotiated with, for the only power he possessed was the power to say no.
[Hermit] While much of the above is opinion, it seems that you are asserting that Clinton lied to dubya. It wouldn't surprise me. What does surprise me is that you accept these lies too. After all, the Palestinians did keep to the letter of the Oslo accord up to Camp David - and the Israelis did not. See my Response to Jonathan Davis on the BBS at "Re: virus: Dear Hermit: You Constitutionally Can't Admit When You Lose", Reply 25, Hermit, 2002-08-10 (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=26000;start=15) for more details.
[Hermit] Was it really Arafat's doing that the conference fell apart. Here is why the Palestinians say they withdrew http://www.mediamonitors.net/pnt1.html. Despite the vast amount of media to the contrary, they appear to be legitimate concerns.
[Hermit] Further resources may be found at http://www.google.com/custom?cof=BIMG%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediamonitors.net%2Fimages%2Fbgm.gif%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediamonitors.net%2Fimages%2Fmmndarkblueheader.jpg%3BAH%3Acenter%3BGL%3A0%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediamonitors.net%3BAWFID%3Aa2c9877cba96cf6c%3B&q=map+palestine&sa=%3CIMG+height%3D32+src%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Flogos%2FLogo_25gry.gif%22+width%3D75%3E&domains=MediaMonitors.net&sitesearch=MediaMonitors.net
---- This message was posted by Hermit to the Virus 2002 board on Church of Virus BBS. <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=26066>
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