From: Hermit (hidden@lucifer.com)
Date: Thu Aug 15 2002 - 12:37:26 MDT
[Hermit] Having infinite time on your hands, I'm sure you can continue forever. Having said all of the following before, I don't have the time to repeat it and don't have the expectation you will learn from it or attempt to challenge it.
[Joe Dees] And in most of those wars, it was Israel who was initially attacked; now you're criticizing a country you dislike for having the temerity and unmitigated gall to effectively defend itself. Sadly, increasingly typical
of you.
[Hermit] I suggest you read some history. Taste the wild side. All history is a story, and I think that you have heard only one side of it. http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/index_zion1.html. This is from a Palestinian perspective. The British, the League of Nations and the members of the United Nations at the relevant times reached different conclusions from those you hold. As the perspective of time assists us in seeing the situation more clearly, aided by Jewish biographies and testimony which dehagiographies the Israeli perspective, it becomes apparent that most of the "history" of Israel, ancient and modern, is mythical.
[Hermit] For example, beginning in 1948, when the British threw in their mandate due to Israeli terrorism, the Israelis had a hard core of locally skilled terrorists and a large number of experienced soldiers fresh from the Allied armies. The death toll for Israel was some 4'000 military and 2'000 civilians. They killed some 15'000 Arabs and Palestinians and drove some 900'000 Palestinians into exile. (Source "Resort to Arms : International and Civil Wars 1816-1980", Melvin Small & Joel David Singer, 1982) also http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat4.htm Don't like what I have to say, what this site has to say, how about what Yitzhak Rabin's widow said, "I have doubt about how much terrorism can be uprooted, we were also terrorists once and they didn't uproot us and we went on dealing in terrorist activities. Despite all the efforts of all of the British army in the land, we went on with terrorism." (Reuters, 1997-07-11) Is she also anti-Israel?
[Hermit] From the beginning, Israel, sometimes against American resistance, more usually with American assistance, developed into an art form the ability to provoke their neighbors into war on killing grounds from which few escaped. "I know how at least 80% of all the incidents with Syria started. We were sending a tractor to the demilitarized zone and we knew that the Syrians will shoot. If they did not shoot, we would instruct the tractor to go deeper, till the Syrians finally got upset and start shooting. Then we employed artillery, and later also the air-force... I did that... and Yitzhak Rabin did that, when he was there..." -- Moshe Dayan in a 05/1997 revelation. Or "In June l967, we had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him." -- Menachem Begin in The New York Times, August 21, 1982. So much for Israel being "initially attacked." These wars resulted in the lops
ided death tolls which I reflected earlier. Rules of engagement did not apply. This was, after all, "Holy War." And we have all read your opinion of ideologists. Why do you think this applies only to the Muslim? After all, the Palestinian and the Jew share a very similar background.
[Hermit] You have made a lot of statements about Saddam Hussein and Kuwait. "Never before" you thundered. But on December 14, 1981, the Israeli Knesset unilaterally annexed the Golan Heights in clear contravention of international law. Why was Israel not placed under sanctions? Rabin, while prime minister publicly announced his policy to crush the 1987/88 Palestinian uprising using "force, might and beatings." Numerous witnesses in Israeli courts have confirmed this. Is this not terrorism against a people?
[Hermit] The very fact that you can take what I see as Jonathans frenzied rantings, invalid assertions and unpleasant innuendo and assume that they form a rational counter to anything, should again tell you something about your current analytic capacity. I didn't respond to Jonathan because while I can respond to unreason with reasoned argument, this doesn't mean that I have the time to deal with the jibes of fools for no possible reward. The only reason you have received so much time from me in the last while is because you were once a great thinker, and I had rather hoped that there was some way to see it brought back.
[Hermit] Now I simply regret having wasted so many precious hours.
---- This message was posted by Hermit to the Virus 2002 board on Church of Virus BBS. <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=26109>
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