From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Tue Aug 20 2002 - 00:48:03 MDT
On 19 Aug 2002 at 23:31, athe nonrex wrote:
> >> [joedees 2]
> >> >All in all, an interesting essay.
> >>
> >> [athenonrex 3]
> >> wow...that's high praise coming from you.
> >>
> >> okay, you're right i guess. i suppose the mistake
> >> of a hasty generalization was made on my part concerning
> >> the system of our "great" nation, but alas, does the
> >> government always follow the rules and laws it tries to make the
> >> populace follow? perhaps better stated: does the govenment ever
> >> violate the constitution, the US's holy grail, without first
> >> amending the constitution? i do believe they have.
>
> >>[joedees 4]
> >Yes, but when they're caught, there's usually legal hell to pay. See
> > Watergate, Iran-Contra.
>
> [athenonrex 5]
> name me one common person that know or remembers iran-contra. walk up
> or down any street asking people of iran-contra and see what the
> responses are...the masses are easily moved to forget the past,
> especially when it comes to bad things the politicians that they voted
> for did...
>
A lot of people do remember it - those who lived through it most
certainly do.
>
> >>[athenonrex 3]
> >> there may be "laws" that the majority can only have so much
> >> legislative power, but when it comes down to it, the majority is
> >> still in control to the bitter end. (with the exceptions of course
> >> when the military takes command, et cetera...)
>
> >>[joedees 4]
> >Like the US National Guard enforcing integration of Southern schools
> >in the '60's.
>
> [athenonrex 5]
> or when the executive branch of our govenment is permitted to bomb or
> attack countries without prior notification, so long as it is a
> "policing action" or a "conflict," and not a true war?
>
In the case of Afghanistan, the Congress was indeed consulted.
>
> >>[athenonrex 3]
> >> polititians are always going to pander to the audience that will
> >> get them the most votes, and therefore into office. this is only
> >> the logical thing to do if one is trying to get into office. and
> >> who has the most votes? obviously the majority does.
>
> >>[joedees 4]
> >Cynical politicians indeed do promise the majority that they will
> >cater to their unfair desires in order to garner their votes, but
> >upon subsequent election, when the politicians attempt to keep such
> >promises by passing laws designed to so unfairly cater, they are
> >generally challenged in court and ruled unconstitutional. In fact,
> >one of the reasons that cynical politicians are willing to promise
> >and subsequently attempt to pass such laws is that they know that
> >this will happen.
>
> [athenonrex 5]
> point taken...politicians bad, people stupid...
> i would like to refer to bill hicks,
> "...i like that pupet better than the other...wait! they're both
> controlled by the same person!"
>
In the end, politicians are controlled by the constitution and the voters.
>
> >>[athenonrex 3]
> >> i, in the section of US politics, was only trying to provide the
> >> image of our country in a manner that was ad populem and to my
> >> favor, as was what the assignment called for. that did however lead
> >> me to a hasty generalization...que sera sera...
>
> >>[joedees 4]
> >You might do a google search on meritocracy, and see how close this
> >ancient model is to what you propose.
>
> [athenonrex 5]
> you mean like plato's republic? and the such? actually, the model that
> i made is an extention of plato's republic, only to a different end,
> and by a somewhat different means. i am quite aware of what a
> meritocracy is. people are valued by their subsequent abilities and
> the necessity that the community has for them, etc... which is
> actually what i was going for, just at a different angle.
>
Thought so.
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