From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Wed Aug 21 2002 - 12:41:47 MDT
On 21 Aug 2002 at 12:24, rhinoceros wrote:
>
> [Joe Dees]
> Once again, the ad hominem attack; no refutation of the message, but
> an attack upon the messenger.
>
>
> [rhinoceros]
>
> But the subject of this post *is* the messenger.
>
> Of course, if it was about a particular message of the messenger, that
> should be addressed on its own merit -- perhaps taking also into
> account the messenger's bias, special interest, previous lies, and
> other merits or shortcomings (see previous comments about Pravda).
>
>
> [Joe Dees]
> Okay, let's talk about the messenger - I mean the writer of not only
> the article posted but also the MEMRI article. This person has
> seemingly created a lucrative and publishable cottage industry for
> himself bashing neocons. Not that there's not plenty available to
> bash there, but ideas should not be accepted or dismissed depending
> upon the source's purported membership, or lack of it, in a lauded or
> despised group.
>
>
> [rhinoceros]
> In the context of this particular thread, that would be ad hominem.
>
>
> [Joe Dees]
> Either ad hominem against both accused neocons and the accsing article
> writer is acceptable, or it is acceptable against neither. Make up
> your mind. It cannot be acceptable against either but not the other.
>
>
> [rhinoceros]
> Yes, it can. Such are the wonders of argument.
>
> Someone is discussing what someone else is and tries to classify him.
> This is an argument in itself. This is not ad hominem, because it is
> not supposed to counter any specific argument made by the second
> person.
>
In the case of the article writer, it is indeed an ad hominem, as it is
intended to a priori impeach anything that the targets of the article
might have to say, regardless of merit; that is the very definition of ad
hominem.
>
> But the first person makes a specific argument. If we counter this
> specific argument by trying to classify the first person, then we have
> an ad hominem,
>
In either case, it is an ad hominem, and I have just explained why.
> ----
> This message was posted by rhinoceros to the Virus 2002 board on
> Church of Virus BBS.
> <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;thread
> id=26206>
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