From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Tue Sep 24 2002 - 18:07:11 MDT
On 24 Sep 2002 at 17:35, Zloduska wrote:
>
> [Joe Dees]
> He was the persistent enabler of Hermit's behavior. I would have
> preferred that he stayed and jettisoned the Hemorrhoidally Bloviating
> One, but he made his own choice, and I respect it.
>
> I don't see how one equates non-action with enabling. If you keep
> borrowing a junkie friend money for drugs, or you continue buying
> drinks for an alcoholic friend and invite them to a bar, then you are
> an "enabler". If you stuff your kid full of chocolate cake, pop
> rocks, and gummy bears, give them a loaded pistol and send them off to
> Chuck E Cheese for their sixth birthday, then you are an enabler of
> clown homicide. David is the owner/creator of the list, and as he
> pointed out, he is no more responsible for Hermit than he is for me,
> or you.
>
> In fact, one could argue that David is at fault for you flooding the
> list with your angry rants, and is a "persistent enabler" of your
> behavior because he didn't silence you at some point. Myself, I
> prefer a leader who is more apt to let alone, fold his arms behind his
> back and whistle in times of trouble, to one that stilfles unpopular
> voices and crushes freedom in his fist as soon as he faces any amount
> of opposition. This entire group is an experimental project. David
> is not under contract to serve us, nor is he an elected representative
> of anyone here. He's trying to run an email list and website while
> still being fair and relatively cool-- not control an entire nation.
> Please.
>
My only complaint with David was that he ceded BBS controls to
Hermit, and did not intervene when Hermit began abusing them to
subserve his own political slant on things. I am not the only one here
who has voiced that particular complaint.
>
> [Zlo]Sure, I have indulged in many casual flame-wars, but any time I
> had a major problem and/or disagreement with a list regular, such as
> Hermit, I settle it via email, IRC, or the phone-- OFF THE LIST.
>
> [Joe Dees]That is not where he engaged me.
>
> Yeah, and the adult, polite way to deal with that would be to resolve
> it off the list, so that no one else has to suffer a barrage of
> flames.
>
He could have done the same, and did not, so I guess that criticism
applies to the both of us.
>
> [Joe Dees]Your mother, I'll bet, is most likely not in the same
> circumstances as mine - and if she by chance is, Hermit did not use
> freely given knowledge of those circumstances to prove himself to be
> an unredemable anus with you, as he did with me.
>
> That's totally irrelevant, Joe. Sure it's relevant to your entire
> tirade and crusade for "justice", but really, why are you taking it so
> personally? Why reacting so strongly when you don't need to? It
> makes no difference whether he insults your mother, father, siblings,
> or as the Croatians say, fucks your grandmother's tits through her
> coffin, because they are not involved-- it was a personal jibe aimed
> solely at you. We all acknowledge that fact-- yeah, it was mean and
> maybe even "cruel". And? You have reciprocated-- risen above and
> beyond in vitriolic verbage to counter-attack Hermit, and then some.
>
> The Back-and-Forth insult contest, as others pointed out, is no
> different from two grade-school kids duking it out on the playground.
> It's juvenile and only impedes any kind of progress. By taking such
> great offense and making it a personal battle, you are only making
> yourself seem petty and hypocritical instead of ignoring Hermit. In
> short, it doesn't matter if my mother is a head of cabbage on the body
> of an animated robot and someone calls her a homely scag, because that
> would be no different from the numerous, ubiquitous, scathing
> ad-hominem digs you have made at Hermit over the last few months. You
> are the ONLY person here who perceives such a difference. Sometimes
> the majority really is right. Rarely, but sometimes.
>
We differ here; I do not consider intentionally cruel insults such as
"drooling" "maternal nutcase" aimed at my Alzheimer's-afflicted mother
to be irrelevant, but instead to be proof of the truth of my counter-
ripostes concerning his character, or lack thereof. It may not be
politically correct to call someone what they have abundantly proven
that they are, but the truth, by definition, can never be an insult.
>
> [Zlo]I agree that Hermit was out of line and his remarks about your
> mother were uncalled for. Well, so fucking what, Hermit is not going
> to change at all.
>
> [Joe Dees]That is the most damning staement concernig Hermit that
> could possibly be made. Such a being would perpetually fail the
> Turing test.
>
> On the contary, it doesn't get any more human than that. Humans can
> be dickheads, didn't you know that? Doesn't mean they are always and
> only pure evil. Everyone is a mixture of both, to varying degrees.
>
I guess that Hermit IS a very little person; a bigger person would be
capable of admitting baltant mistakes and casually callous cruelties,
and of apologizing for them.
>
> [Zlo]Yes, you are suffering, as is your mother, but your
> > hopeless quest for "justice" just isn't going to happen. As many
> > have said a trillion times, get over it, man, and move on. You are
> > only exacerbating the entire situation instead of ignoring his
> > inappropriate comments. After all, are you able to cast the first
> > stone? You've insulted him up and down more than anyone else here.
>
> [Joe Dees]Why should I break, when that insulting slandersucker is
> unwilling to bend? Fuck him and the megalomanic self-delusion he
> rides everywhere on!
>
> I didn't ask you to break. I asked you to evolve. Rise above, even.
> No offense, but you've both already lost the contest. No straw for
> you!
>
I have not viciously insulted his mother, nor have I abused my
nonexistent BBS control to reroute his posts but not my own. Those
distinctions belong to Hermit alone.
>
> Alas, I feel like my breath is completely wasted. So far many others
> have tried to reason with you and make the same points, but you have
> apparently ignored or missed them. Treading over the same territory
> with you that everyone else has dug in the dirt would be futile.
> Guess I'll join Walter up on the fence. Got any candy?
>
I have carefully considered those points, and am willing to move on; but
only in a world where the victim is expected to curtsey to her rapist por
be blamed for the crime should I be expected to turn a third cheek after
being bitchslapped twice. I slap back.
> ----
> This message was posted by Zloduska to the Virus 2002 board on Church
> of Virus BBS.
> <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;thread
> id=26707>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Sep 25 2002 - 13:28:59 MDT