From: Hermit (hidden@lucifer.com)
Date: Wed Jul 30 2003 - 14:03:32 MDT
Response (Offlist first) to Lucifer's "Re:A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy"
http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=28832
We all know that the CoV is essentially broken in two right now.
On the one side is a small group that embraces the US Government, thinks that no media is more accurate and fair than that of the US, consider war a necessary evil to prevent worse, and who imagine that the entire would would be better off adopting "American values". This group, while smaller, has an advocate, Joe Dees, who apparently has an enormous amount of time to make posts which completely dominate the forums which we have established.
On the other we have a much larger group of people who mistrust the US Government, disbelieve the US media, oppose war on the grounds that it will only impoverish and gain us enemies, and who encourage accepting that people are different, but emphasize that differences are not necessarily a bad thing. Even in this group, all is not well. Some large number of its members consider that the importance they ascribe to the freedom of expression and individual responsibility means that the first group should not be interfered with. We are, they (correctly) say, all Virians and "entitled" to use our forums. A second, probably equally large sub-group disagree. They assert (correctly) that we have been "hijacked", as we can no longer discuss a vast range of topics, cannot even respond to blatantly fallacious material due to the fact that they will likely result in a "war of words", and no longer feel particularly inspired to work towards improving things. This, they say, justifies moderating the forums or ejecting me
mbers (the author is in this group).
Other less important issues are present, probably potentially divisive, but at this stage, likely resolvable. Only those noted above do not seem readily bridgeable. At this point, there is no apparent way to reconcile these groups, although I am sure that all three groups being represented by intelligent, principled people, will concur that the continuous fighting between them destroys the value of the community, and drives potential recruits away in droves; leaving the core community to preside over a wasteland of self-destruction and largely (but fortunately not entirely) devoid of reward or joy. Unfortunately, all of them value their own principles to such an extent that none are prepared to budge or regard their positions as self-destructive. No matter who you ask, "honesty" compels them to admit that it is all the fault of the "other" group.
Of course, we are not entirely alone. Lucifer's post reminds us of other communities that are no more, due to not entirely unrelated battles. This does tend to happen more in on-line discussion communities which attract diverse populations than in off-line communities which tend to be more geographically bound and interest driven and thus less diverse. Yet even in "real-world" environments such battles happen remarkably frequently (And getting in a small dig, more under Dubya than ever before). Let me illustrate with a common parable.A man was walking across a bridge one day, and saw another man standing on the edge, about to jump off.
So he ran over to him and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?", the man said.
"Well, there's so much to live for!"
"Like what?" he asked.
"Well... are you religious or atheist?"
"Religious," he said.
"Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"
"Christian," he said.
"Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
"Protestant," he said.
"Me too" Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
"Baptist Church of God!"
"My brother!," he said. "Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God!," he said.
"My brother! Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915!"
At which point the man shouted, "Die, heretic scum!" - and pushed him off the bridge!Apocraphal, I'm sure. But like most legends, it has its roots in a "higher" truth. In 2001, the Hartford Institute for Religion Research published the largest survey of its kind in the United States involving over 14,000 congregations. Here are two of its startling findings: Three of four congregations experienced conflict in the last five years. In one out of four, it was serious and caused a lasting impact. And it isn't just the Baptists. There are now over 2000 Prebyterian churches in the United States, most started through schisms. And yes, the closer alike these churches are, the more they tend to hate each other.
In the meantime, we have lost several opportunities to gain a following. I had rather hoped that like anti-war.com and smirkingchimp.com, both of which added tens of thousands of donating members, and large gifts, through providing similar fare to that which I was attempting to establish on the BBS, that we could establish some relevance outside of the enthusiastic but broke "kernal" community. Instead, our BBS is spammed, our lists trashed and our membership jaded. I suggest that like some of the long dead communities in Lucifer's article, like DALnet, and like thousands of Christian sects, the CoV is coming to a juncture (or has passed it) where we have to recognise what is happening and take some action or suffer similar consequences. I still think that the best solution for the CoV is to recognise and face up to the divisions between us. I say divisions, because this is not diversity. Diversity of opinion is no longer tolerated if it offends our "wrong wing" and simply leads to bombing and name calling.
The danger of imminent termination or fission is much higher than for some other organizations, not only because of the current tensions, but also because we have no clearly defined goals, and thus our membership is held together by the tenuous bonds of the Goals, Sins and Virtues and perhaps an interest in memetics. Even so, I suggest that with marginal good will, we should be able to do better. Now it might sound ridiculous to call for good will at this stage, when it seems that "somebody has to go", but I will try to explain a strategy which may encourage at least a little hope.
The CoV dispenses with all of its existing structures. The virus.lucifer.com website is greatly simplified, removing most of the information on it, and instead contains two or three equally prominent links. One to each of the organizations. The first, the "Republican" Church of Virus (which Joe Dees is committed to never leaving). The second, to a more "liberal" Church of Virus. Possibly a third if the "moderated" and "unmoderated" sub-groups cannot agree (although I think that this can be resolved). The new organizations may choose to use some other names, but this is not obligatory. Each group will establish its own servers (which may be leased from Lucifer Media for so long as possible) as well as their their own sites and forums and will fund and manage their own operations. Both will have access to the common pool of historically generated material and will share the benefit of continuity via the virus name at Lucifer.com. Should either group generate a revenue surplus, they will tythe to the Church of
Virus which will maintain the common portal. Both groups agree to share the costs associated with maintaining the virus.lucifer.com portal and not to interfere with each other's operations or sites. Both groups agree that in the event that if, in the opinion of David Lucifer, they breach these agreements, abandon the Goals, or the Sins and Virtues established by the Church of Virus, that they will relinquish all rights, affiliation with, and use of the name "the Church of Virus", "CoV", "virus.lucifer.com" and other permutations or related names. In addition, other groups may affiliate with the Church of Virus or its splinter groups on the same basis, and the established groups may further schism and the components shall inherit this agreement under the same conditions. Members are welcome to join either organization or both.
In this way, our goals and principles will be propagated by at least two bodies, both of which will have a much better chance to propagate those goals and interests to their chosen demographics greatly increasing the probability that our memes will persevere.
I will address further considerations of practicality and the structure which I would advocate for the a new site once this proposal has been considered and discussed (and when I have a minute to spare). It should be noted that this proposal could be put into action by simply "cloning" the existing sites.
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