From: Jonathan Davis (jonathan.davis@lineone.net)
Date: Fri Sep 19 2003 - 06:52:44 MDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Hermit
Sent: 19 September 2003 11:45
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: RE: virus: Re:communication and body language.
[Jonathan Davis] It is pity the useful bits at the bottom of your post are
blighted by the now habitual Deeslike snipe at the object of your obsession.
[Hermit] Ooh, how cutting.
[Jonathan 2] It hurt?
[Jonathan Davis] I note you have looked up the Sceptics dictionary article I
referred you to on 3rd September. As I said at the time, it is a superb
resource.
[Hermit] Although you referred to it, I was already familiar with both the
site which I had previously recommended [ Hermit, "virus: Cold water for
distance viewing - or some people will swallow anything!", 2001-12-18 ]
(http://forum.javien.com/XMLmessage.php?id=id::SShTRyhD-GhtT-SH4s-Vhtm-JwJ0K
wheUWlb) and others, and the article in question, which I had previously
referenced in [ Hermit, "Re:virus: brain and spirit", 2002-07-07 ]
(http://forum.javien.com/XMLmessage.php?id=id::Kw9PcFNj-caZU-T3T_-Q6Yt-SrIsF
BEQNFRe), when I said:In any case "cognitive therapy" seems to mean whatever
its supporters want it to mean (similar in many ways to the approaches
offered by e.g. Landmark Forum, Large Group Awareness Training programs and
neurolinguistic programming. Brief, but helpful, descriptions of these may
be found at http://skepdic.com), does not appear to be a recognized system
and presumably remains distinguished as much by its failures than its
successes or we would surely see more about it in peer reviewed journals.
Pharmacological intervention simply works.. And naturally, I agree it is a
superb resource. Which is why, I don't cite them, and then a few lines later
explain that their articles are "erroneous".
[Jonathan 2] Nothing is perfect. Not your memory, nor Sceptics dictionary,
that is why there is always scope for some constructive criticism.
[Jonathan Davis] In defence of NLP, the Sceptics dictionary misplaces its
emphasis and is consequently erroneous.
[Hermit] As I read it, the article in question seemed to cover NLP with a
broad brush. What would you say it's emphasis was? Did you read the other
referenced articles? If so, how do you see their critiques as differening
from that of the Skeptical Dictionary?
[Jonathan 2] I have not read all the referenced articles. I was discussing
the Sceptics dictionary entry.
[Jonathan Davis] NLP is simply "an attitude, backed by a methodology, which
leaves a trail of techniques". The attitude is simply "Use what works".
[Hermit] And how do you measure, "What works"?
[Jonathan 2] The same way you measure anything.
[Jonathan Davis] The Sceptics dictionary article correctly attacks some of
the adopted methodologies, but these are not NLP. For a good look at the
subject I recommend "Dr. Sulo's Crash Course in Neuro-Linguistic Programming
(NLP)" [ http://www.covertcommunications.com/nlp/crashcourse.html ].
[Hermit] From the attached articles, and the included references to NLP
materials, don't you consider NLP as being rather difficult to define? All
things to all men? If not, how do you explain why its proponents describe it
in so many different ways?
[Jonathan 2] I have already given one of the founders definitions, which is
suitably broad and embracing, somewhat like the definition of the CoV.
[Jonathan Davis] P.S. Please don't take this as a personal attack. I mean I
am not posting doctored pictures of you doing a Nazi salute or anything :-)
[Hermit] How did you determine that the included photograph was "doctored"?
Has this "fact" been published elsewhere? If not, have you considered ink
selling your proof? Afer all, the "fact" that Reuters is dissemenating
"doctored" photographs would be a significant story. Or were you simply
implying through insinuation that the picture was doctored? In which case,
don't you think this might be a dishonest, or at least dubious practice?
[Jonathan 2] I wrote "I am not posting doctored pictures of you doing a Nazi
salute or anything". I said nothing about the Bush photo. I would need to
doctor a photo of you doing a Nazi salute as I do not anticipate seeing you
photographed on a podium by Reuters anytime soon. That said "Hail Hermit"
has a ring, dontchathink?
[Hermit] Can you explain the purpose of the smiley? I think I missed it
somewhere.
[Jonathan 2] Is means "Lighten up a bit Hermit old pal, this is just for
fun."
[Hermit] PS Please snip appropriately when a full quotation is apparently
not required, and 13% of our readers still access the CoV via dial-up.
[Jonathan 2] Noted, but this is a bit fussy. Snipping a paragraph or two
ought to save dial-up users, what, a half a second or so?
Incidentally, just for the record. I am no fan of model/narrative based
psychology/psychiatry/brain science. I am strictly a hard science man. My
IRC handle and site name might give a hint of this.
Kind regards
Jonathan
http://www.limbicnutrition.com
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