Re: Re:virus: Primitive society violence and murder rates.

From: rhinoceros (rhinoceros@freemail.gr)
Date: Mon Oct 06 2003 - 11:31:02 MDT

  • Next message: Blunderov: "RE: virus: Primitive society violence and murder rates. was Re: :The Disciplinary Process of the Church of Virus"

    Besides the different forms and the different perpetrators of violence,
    some other things which need clarification are:

    a) How should we define "primitive culture" in this discussion? By its
    technological level? By the size of the social units comprising it? By
    the acceptance of the western secular values? By its adherence to
    tradition? Wealth? The terrain? Population density?

    We also need to know how the related articles and statistics define
    "primitive culture", so that we can evaluate the data correctly. My best
    guess is that the criteria which have been used are a balanced mixture
    which appeals to the researcher's peer social environment.

    That said, my question was *not* about taking issue because someone got
    called prmitive by someone else. What I am after is finding specific
    causes and making meaningful inferences.

    b) Do we have reasons to assume that all the different cultures which
    are collectively labeled as primitive have the same behavior regarding
    violence? To be more specific, isn't it possible that the horrifying
    numbers come from a couple of particular primitive cultures, plus a
    couple more which were caught in a chain of events caused by external
    meddling?

    c) Statistical data in their raw form is a nasty thing. All it takes is
    choosing a suitable categorization which places most of the "bad ones"
    in one of your categories. This way, one can support anything.

    Statistics is much more than that, but a lot of work needs to be
    performed on the raw data. Before drawing a conclusion from a chart like
    that one, you have to take a good first guess at picking the significant
    variables, make a hypothesis, and use a method such as factor analysis
    and check levels of significance, confidence, and lots of more boring
    stuff.

    BTW, last year we were discussing something related with an unnamed
    person right here. The kind of violence we were talking about was taking
    the law upon oneself ("terrorism", to use that person's words). Let's
    say you live in a place occupied by the enemy tribe. Some members of
    your tribe, possibly under the influence of capture bonding (which, BTW,
    while well documented, I still think is a pathological phenomenon only
    applying to some) or for some other reason become "godfathers" empowered
    by the enemy tribe. Their activities are perfectly legal, so some kids
    of your tribe take it upon themselves to exterminate them without much
    ado. In my opinion, this is an abnormal situation where neither modern
    law nor tribal law could provide the much needed safety valve against
    the feeling of "unfairness".

    So, one case where violence occurs is when the familiar social landscape
    breaks down.

    I just remembered an incident which happened in Greece some time after
    the death sentence was abolished (it had been already practically
    inactive for several decades -- convicts were never executed, but it was
    still in the book). In a backwards rural district, a retarded aggressive
    20 year old boy sexually assaulted and killed a 12 year old boy. He was
    arrested and prepared to be sent to the nearest city for trial. The
    papers and the villagers called for blood, but there was no death
    sentence any more. The papers were saying that the small boy's father,
    a relatively old and tired-looking man, would take revenge by himself.

    So it happened. A police convoy was carrying the big boy. The old man
    was standing in the middle of the road holding a shotgun a few miles
    away from the village. The cops got out of the car and stood aside,
    while the old man shot the boy and then surrendered.

    Afterwords, the villagers and the father of the big boy himself said "It
    had to happen. There was no other way for restoring peace." Savages?
    Yes, they are. But I believed them when they said that was the best way
    to avoid more blood.

    As far as I remember, the old man was tried for 5 years in prison or
    less.

    ____________________________________________________________________
    http://www.freemail.gr - δωρεάν υπηρεσία ηλεκτρονικού ταχυδρομείου.
    http://www.freemail.gr - free email service for the Greek-speaking.

    ---
    To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
    


    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Oct 06 2003 - 14:35:22 MDT