From: Keith Henson (hkhenson@rogers.com)
Date: Tue Nov 11 2003 - 06:56:15 MST
At 02:14 PM 10/11/03 -0700, "Epidemic" <hidden@lucifer.com> wrote:
snip
[keith]
>You can elaborate on Dawkins without violating his original discussion in
>Selfish Gene. Any time someone uses the word, you should be able to
>replace it with "replicating information pattern," "element of culture,"
>"learned element of culture," "culturegen" (a earlier term for the same
>thing) or other similar terms.
[epidemic]
>The concept of self is replicable in that if I act or react to something
>that you do, you are reinforced with a sense that you are a separate
>entity. No, it cannot be taught or passed on like langauage or religion,
>in that you are right. But it is still something that is learned, not
>ingrained into the brain's "hardware." If it is learned, it is transmitted.
That is not true. You can learn things that are never transmitted from a
previous knowledge source. One example, you can set and learn the
combination of a safe that you never tell anyone. Second example, you
learn (from the environment by trial and error) as a baby that unsupported
objects fall. The knowledge that unsupported objects fall is part of our
common knowledge, but not a meme. It is not passed on the way we learn how
to make coffee or the short cut to multiplying by nine. These are memes,
elements of our culture.
Ideas about "self" such as "immortal soul" or "thetans" are learned and are
memes. "Identity" itself however is not learned and *is* a function of
mammalian brain hardware. Ask yourself if a dog or a cat has
"identity"? Would it still have an identity in a world where it never met
another animal of any kind? Of course it would!
>If it is transmitted, it is replicated.
Less significant, but also not true in all cases. The preacher screaming
on a street corner is transmitting like crazy but if nobody is listening,
it is not replicated.
>If it is information that replicates, it is a meme.
Even this is not universally true. Genes and computer viruses are
replicating information but not memes. To qualify as a meme it has to be
implied or stated that the active locus is a brain/mind. (A human
brain/mind is not required since birds, primates and a few other animals
can pass on elements of their "culture.")
Keith Henson
>Sorry I didn't spell it out for you.
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