From: Dr Sebby (drsebby@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue Jul 09 2002 - 11:48:07 MDT
...that was a very nice post miss Z! i must admit however that certain
population control issues that i love so much might account for some of
these problems but in general...a very wise post indeed.
drsebby
----Original Message Follows----
From: Zloduska <kjseelna@students.wisc.edu>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: My Inevitable Uber-post (was: The New Pledge of Allegiance)
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 01:23:18 -0500
Since Hermit is gone for an indeterminate amount of time, I will step up and
offer my lengthy commentary on the "debate" we have here. I'm no proper
replacement, but his absence is felt.
Before all else, I'd like to recommend a wonderful web site I stumbled upon
tonight:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/index.html
It tackled all these issues quite well.
Sebby wrote:
>...i will not willingly pledge blind allegiance to some nation state which
>has drifted miles from the notions of its founding fathers which were a
far
>sight wiser than the right-wing,
>"it's-ok-to-shove-this-and-that-down-your-throat-in-spite-of-it-being-uncons
>titutional-as-long-as-it-coincides-with-my(your
>politician)-value-systems" monkeys we have in place today. i typically
can
>only honestly and goodheartedly "pledge allegiance" to a group or
>organization that either reflects my interests/values, embraces the notion
>of negative freedom, or aspires to not estrange any particular value
system
>which at least doesnt massively compromise the elementary golden rule. i
>can currently pledge some sort of allegiance to the notions on which this
>nation was founded, but the current state is a far far cry from several of
>the key points which made this nations creation such an advancement in
>social development. at this point i'd sooner pledge allegiance to my
>beloved Brasil.
Ah, I love your entertaining rants. I feel the same way about the Czech
Republic. I am much more Czech at heart then I am American. But there are
two
great redeeming qualities about the United States:
1) The diversity and lack of an indigenous and homogenous culture allows for
many different ethnicities and cultures to co-exist at least somewhat
peacefully. So you have many citizens whose first language is not English,
and
keep living as though they never left their native culture. Those who do
not
fully assimilate. In any major city one can immerse yourself in the
miniature
pocket of another culture. The fact that there is no real truly "American"
culture is what I like about living here. I like the elements that are very
far removed from what is American, if that makes any sense.
2) The fact that I can express my un-American and anti-American to a
certain
extent without severe penalties is pleasing to me. Of course, socially I
may
be persecuted by my peers and always have been, but as long as I'm not
lynched
and set on fire then I don't mind being unpopular and ostracized; I'm used
to
it. Of course I am an unknown nobody in the public eye, so I can get away
with
these things. I'm not going to bother dredging them up but we all know that
plenty of censorship exists. I'm merely saying that it's nice to be able to
walk down the street and exclaim, "America sucks!" without having and limbs
cut
off.
Your post reminds me that when I was once in grade school I refused to
participate in the bogus Veteran's Day ceremonies and stand up for the
Pledge
of Allegiance. I was one of two people who were pissed off by the mockery
of
patriotism we had to witness. I left the whole farce and went back to the
classroom. I didn't get in trouble, I just got in some fights as a result.
So....
Onikan, I don't understand what you are doing here. You write:
>
> When our actions reflect inconsistent beliefs we are guilty of hypocrisy.
Only last night you were in the #virus channel on IRC telling this arrogant
prick in another channel to "Debate the issue not the person. Attack the
issue
not the person, etc, etc." But here you are calling my friends a bunch of
"dumb shits". I can think of better ways to introduce and endear yourself
to
the congregation. So you subscribe to some of our ideas and goals-- hanging
out in the chat is a good strategy for interacting with other members.
Flaming
people that have been here for years in your first string of posts is
generally
not a good idea. Were it Everett we would applaud you, but I do believe
some
people are making points which you are not considering, only retorting with
insults. However, if the whole Snowleopard/Rose/Will person could come
around
eventually, there must be hope for you as well. Play nice. And remember
that
a great deal of wisdom comes with age and experience, not from books or
college
courses.
What our country was really founded on is slaughter of its natives
("Indians")
and it prospered through the exploitation of Africans. This tradition
continues today, in a lesser extent, through the hard labor that immigrants
endure for crap wages in order to live here. The "ideologies" and rights
you
speak of, which our founding fathers endorsed were created for wealthy white
male landowners. They were not created for women of any ethnicity,
foreigners,
or non-Caucasian and impoverished males. These basic democratic civil
rights
are a relatively recent invention for anyone who isn't a wealthy white man.
It's been less than a hundred years that my entire gender has even been able
to
vote or obtain higher education. I'd say those same when were ungrateful
dicks, considering they owed their very existence to the suffering of women,
just as all men do.
Onikan:
>
> If you've no sense of pride or patriotism, go to another country and see
how
> well you do. The fact still remains that even our "anti-American"
enemies, if
> given the chance, would move to America.
One of the best things for a typical American to do would be to live abroad.
Personally, I never missed the United States. One of the things that
perpetually irked me about the other countries I visited is the feeling of
hopelessness when it comes to lacking certain luxuries that we take for
granted. It's so easy to be lazy here. It's hard to give up customer
service,
wait at least twice as long for anything, not have a vehicle. It's takes
sacrifice of the American slothful lifestyle.
But on the other side of the coin, there is a lot of freedom we are missing
out
on. Most places in Europe, if I felt like smoking a joint, drinking some
whiskey, and having gay kinky sex in a public square on a Sunday, I may be
frowned upon but I most likely not be arrested, fined, harassed, hauled away
and such. We cannot express ourselves in the U.S. except in ways the
religious
fundamentalist government allows. We cannot harm ourselves if we want to.
It's a constant war against Drugs, against Sex, against Pornography, against
Reason... in many ways it is a war against personal freedom. I feel MUCH
more
confined and oppressed in this country than I have anywhere else.
Onikan:
>
> College is personal research you fucking idiot. College is questioning.
It's
> education. Educations other countries don't even have. Oh, how I would
like
> to send you fuckers to N. Korea. Maybe then you could give your
"educated"
> opinion on America.
Is that why we spend twice as much money from hard-working tax-payers to
lock
our citizens up than we spend to educate them?
Although I have attended university for about five years so far, I am
currently
S.O.L because I am not poor or ethnic, or rich enough to have it paid for.
I
have cannot even receive money that I will pay back because of the fucking
policies that exist. It is impossible to get a college education in this
country unless you are extremely lucky, athletic, genius, work your ass off
(and then have your grades suffer), go deep into debt, or have wealthy
parents.
Why is this? Because the money that could be going to help me finish
getting
my degree is going to fund military operations that I am totally against; to
build fucking bombs to kill babies and innocent civilians, and arms to give
to
Israelis so that they can help eradicate their neighbors. Yes, I am pissed
about this, because I have always worked hard and I'd rather have my tax
dollars go to health care (I've always been sick often) and education (I'd
love
to finish school but I can't) than fucking guns.
Onikan:
>
> Remember the United States was founded on freedom. Who founded this
country?
> Refugees from the oppressive British Empire at the time. There are some
> problems with our democratic republic but those problems are Human. And
we're
> all Humanists right so we're not about to get rid of our own kind to make
a
> perfect government! Shit, it's like you guys wanted Hitler to takeover
the
> world.
"Refugees" who turned around and oppressed everyone else they came in
contact
with through slavery and imperialism, among other things. Oh, and speaking
of
Hitler, his main method was to use nationalism, heavy propaganda, and
turning
his enemies against each other in order to procure power for his elite
group.
That is what the United States does best. The US is just a lot more subtle.
As far as the other 'human problems' go, racial and gender inequality
doesn't
appear to be going away any time soon...
Onikan:
>
> Did you know that the primary priority of the average member of Congress
is
> to get re-elected? That's not bad. That's healthy! Why? Because the only
way
> Congressmen and Congresswomen get re-elected is by doing good stuff for
us.
> That means they need to get in the paper a lot and show us what they're
doing
> for us. And if we agree with what they're doing then they get re-elected.
By means of heavy crafty propaganda! Yay! Not to mention slinging shit at
their opponents to make them look as bad as possible.
Onikan:
>
> I don't see why we shouldn't remove the borders between Canada and
America.
> Perhaps, we shouldn't because we need to find better ways to control
crime
> since we can't rid ourselves of criminal activity.
Why? The crime rate has been going down steadily. It's the prison
population
that is rising. Besides the obvious like theft, rape, and murder, most
"crimes" in this country are imagined and completely subjective.
For example: ( from
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Prison_System/Prison_System.html)
>
> "The U.S. has both the largest prison population and the highest rate of
> incarceration in the world, including China and Russia. The U.S.
incarcerates
> people at a rate more than 15 times that of Japan, and its prison
population
> is more than eight times that of Italy, France, the UK, Spain, and
Australia
> combined."
>
> The number of people in prison, in jail, on parole, and on probation in
the
> U.S. increased threefold between 1980 and 2000, to more than 6 million,
and
> the number of people in prison increased from 319,598 to almost 2 million
in
> the same period. This buildup has targeted the poor, and especially
Blacks.
> In 1999, though Blacks were only 13 percent of the U.S. population, they
were
> half of all prison inmates. In 2000, one out of three young Black men was
> either locked up, on probation, or on parole. The military-industrial
complex
> of the 1950s, with its Cold War communist bogeyman, has been replaced by
a
> prison-industrial complex, with young Black "predators" serving as its
> justification."
As for your lecture on how great and wonderful the American system of
government because everyone gets to vote for everyone they want to, and all
turns out peachy in the end...
>
> *There are nearly four million persons currently or permanently
> disenfranchised as a result of laws that take away the voting rights of
> felons and ex-felons.
> * No other democracy besides the US. disenfranchises convicted offenders
for
> life. Many democratic nations, including Denmark, France, Israel and
Poland,
> permit prisoners to vote as well.
> * Nearly three-quarters (73 percent) of the disenfranchised are not in
prison
> but are on probation, on parole or have completed their sentences.
> * 1.4 million African American men -- 13 percent of the adult African
> American male population -- have lost the right to-vote, a rate of
> disenfranchisement that is seven times the national average. By
comparison,
> in the 1996 general election 4.6 million African American men voted.
> * In Florida one in three African American men has permanently lost the
right
> to vote.
> * In five states lowa, Mississippi, New Mexico, Virginia, and Wyoming one
in
> four black men (24% to 28%) have permanently lost the right to vote.
Speaking American corporations (I am now), along with the gluttony and
ignorance of most Americans, here is another great web site to look at:
http://www.eatveg.com/vegstuff/realities.htm
There are just under 250 million Americans. While they are devouring their
daily greasy McFodder like the silly beasts they are, 1.3 BILLION human
beings
could be fed by the grain and soybeans eaten by U. S. livestock.
Meanwhile 40,000 children starve to death every day. While tribal African
men
make a yearly dangerous trek across miles of desert to graze their cattle
and
in search of water, risking their life to provide enough food for their
families, and some fight to protect their crops from deadly wild elephants,
fast food "restaurants" tempt children with plastic Disney characters as
another form of advertisement in their HAPPY Meals(tm)-- over 60 billion
Sold(out).
(another source- http://www.reutershealth.com/wellconnected/doc53.html )
>
> Enough food is produced in the US to supply 3,800 calories every day to
each
> man, woman, and child, far more than any single person needs to sustain
life.
> Such food has to be marketed and sold. In spite of the proven health
risks of
> obesity, the government, insurance companies, and the medical profession
> spend very little money to oppose the billions of dollars that the food
> industry spends to promote food products.
>
> The prevalence of obesity (defined as a BMI of over 30) in the United
States
> has risen dramatically over the past few years. It is now estimated that
61%
> of Americans are now overweight, up from 43% in the early 1940s. And
> according to a 2001 study, nearly 20% of American adults are obese. More
> children and adolescents are overweight in America than ever before.
Onikan:
>
> It is our ideologies that feed the fire in the American heart not soccer.
No, it's not soccer-- it's CHEESEBURGERS! Yep, that fire is not the warm
glow
of pride, it's high cholesterol intake! As that web site mentions, the
number
one cause of death in Americans is heart attacks from all the fatty, nasty
McSludge we consume!
If you want to see "shit for brains", you ought to work where I do, at a
temporary office job. It's very depressing, not only because of the
mindless
job itself, but the work environment due to my clueless co-workers. They
are
EMINEM-listening, Burger King-gobbling, Egg-McMuffin-swallowing,
television-watching, narrow-minded, astoundingly ignorant zombies. Most of
them haven't gone to college. Some of them actually abhor the idea being
exposed to foreign cultures. You'd think after reading about sick and dying
people all day (we deal with Medicaid insurance claims) with horrible
diseases,
confined to their homes or a wheelchair, one would not sit there all day
eating
glazed doughnuts. I can't have a normal conversation with nearly all of
them
because we have nothing in common. I probably have permanent lacerations on
my
tongue from biting down on it so much. Here is the kind of confounding
retarded assertions that I have to hear on a daily basis:
"Yuck, I wouldn't want to live in another country; that would be terrible."
"Ohmigod, I can't miss {insert inane television program here}; I have to
find
out who wins! How can you not like watching TV?"
"I'm going to go work out tonight when I'm done for at least a half-hour.
So
who's coming to McDonald's with me for breakfast?"
"Britney Spears is good music for walking with headphones."
"Are you one of those anarchist people?" [after I said that I wish I could
write "Stupid Jesus Freak" as a reason code for a return letter]
"Well, I don't understand vegetarianism because God put animals on this
earth
for us to enjoy, so we should eat them."
What does one say to comments so retarded? I don't even know where to begin,
so
I say nothing.
Let's face it-- our country (US) is fucked. I don't know about you, but I
sure
feel like grabbing a six-pack of Budweiser or Miller beer, a frozen steak TV
dinner, some potato chips, and settling down on the couch to watch shows
like
"American Idol" and "The Real World", interspersed with advertisements for
products to remember those deaths last year in NYC caused by the evil
anti-Christian terrorists. It's easier to just forget about it and become a
fat stupid slob. Oh, and while you're at it, make sure you raise your
bratty
kids to be uncouth fat little Bush-voting pigs as well!
That is all.
-Kristy
DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".
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