From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Wed Aug 14 2002 - 18:56:24 MDT
On 14 Aug 2002 at 18:24, Hermit wrote:
>
> [Joe Dees 1] As to what Palestinians seem to be worth to some of their
> relatives: I was incorrect concerning the amount of money Saddam
> Hussein offers the families of Palestinian suicide bombers; it is not
> 50k per, but half as much - 25k per, and this amount was only recently
> increased from 10k per. This of course means that, of the percentage
> of the 70+ Palestinian families of suicide bombers who encouraged
> their relatives (mostly children and young adults) to commit suicide
> bombings, they were doing so in the expectation of receiving only half
> as much from Saddam Hussein. Of course, they also receive aid from
> Hamas and from some Saudi-based Islamic charities.
>
> [Hermit 2] Encourage? For the money? I really pity you.
>
> [Joe Dees 7] I pity them, and a culture and religious ideology that
> makes such an action not only acceptable, but laudable to a majority
> of the Palestinian populace.
>
> [Hermit 8] You haven't proven this, only asserted it. And we know what
> your assertions are worth.
>
More than yours. And the drop in the suicide bombing rate that has
followed on the heels of the Israelis making such action less profitable
is itself proof of the validity of my contention.
>
> [Hermit 2] How much money would you have to be offered for you to want
> to persuade your hypothetical children to commit suicide?
>
> [Joe Dees 3] Unlike, apparently, scores of Palestinian parents, no
> amount would suffice.
>
> [Hermit 4] If that is the case, why do you assume that this is the
> case for Palestinians?
>
> [Joe Dees 7] Facts, evidence and recent history.
>
> [Hermit 8] Then this should be easy to show. Where are the facts? What
> is the evidence?
>
See below. That was, after all, part of the answer you split with your
question, which was meant to divert attention from the fact that I had
already provided such evidence.
>
> [Joe Dees 7] It seems that since the Israelis have threatened
> expulsions of West Bank families of the suicide bombers to Gaza (away
> from their families, communities and friends) and begun bulldozing
> their homes, that the economic incentives for urging such actions upon
> their children are less economically and socially attractive to them,
> and there has been a marked decrease in the suicide bombing rate
> since.
>
> [Hermit 8] Yet the same was said after the military responses. And the
> same is said after each murder of a Palestinian leader by the
> Israelis. And the same was said when the Israelis imposed a blockade
> on the Palestinian people. Each time, in the long term, the result has
> been an increase in violence. Why is this time going to be different?
>
We shall see; if one action does not stop the fellow from kicking you in
the gonads, you take another. But if you find that he's being paid to do
so, it behooves you to interdict such payment, or to make it more costly
to him to accept such payment than to decline it.
>
> [Joe Dees 5] When economics and ideology unite, a noxious combination
> is produced.
>
> [Hermit 6] So Joe, what combination of ideology and economics would it
> take to persuade you to send your hypothetical children off to commit
> suicide?
>
> [Joe Dees 7] Having not been raised in that ideology, the actions of
> these parents towards their own children, profit or no, is
> incomprehensible to me, but nevertheless obviously present.
>
> [Hermit 8] Yet it is not evident to me or many others
>
And who are these ad populam 'many others' to whom you appeal,
besides scatflinger and mermaid? Would you care to identify them;
would they care to identify themselves? Fine company you keep.
>
> that this is
> caused by ideology at all. Nor is it obvious to me or many others that
> the parents are encouraging this.
>
Palestinian parents have been quoted as saying that they were
overjoyed that their children became suicide bombers, and several
family members have admitted to facilitating the training and
transportation of their relatives for that purpose.
>
> Perhaps you would like to explain
> what makes this obvious to you. Were Thomas and Susan Klebold and
> Wayne and Katherine Harris ideologically motivated to encourage their
> children to act at Columbine? I agree that you appear to be suffering
> from incomprehension, but the confusion includes, I think, your
> attribution of cause.
>
They were not acolytes of Radical Islam, nor did Saddam Hussein
promise them 25k to urge their kids to take that path, so far as I can tell.
This herring is not just red, it is scarlet, as your face should be, for
tossing this rotten fish out of Denmark and into the scarecrow (straw
man).
>
> [Joe Dees 7] Of course, in a culture that allows four wives and does
> not prectice birth control, there will be a surfeit of children, and
> with so many per household, perhaps the sacrifice of a single child
> here and there, as a small percentage of the household's children, is
> looked upon as an acceptable loss, when balanced against the good that
> the money and aid subsequently received could provide for those
> remaining. And they can always make more. Since those dead children
> are, after all, according to that noxious ideology, Paradise-bound
> martyrs, the parents can perhaps rationalize the action as beneficial
> compassionate and merciful to all, and the sacrifice of the future
> martyr's earthly span in this vale of tears as a reasonable and
> expendable one to make that span easier for those (s)he leaves behind
> in it.
>
> [Hermit 8] I don't think it takes a genius to describe anyone who can
> issue such a diatribe as matching the definition of a racist bigot to
> the last slur. So I'm not planning on venturing here.
>
I am dealing not with an ethnicity, but with an ideology, so your racist
slurs only reflect upon your willful inability to discern such a difference,
serving the purpose of avoiding a reply to the very analysis you
requested.
> ----
> This message was posted by Hermit to the Virus 2002 board on Church of
> Virus BBS.
> <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;thread
> id=26096>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Sep 25 2002 - 13:28:53 MDT