From: Hermit (hidden@lucifer.com)
Date: Sat Sep 21 2002 - 16:32:09 MDT
[Joe Dees] When Hermit gratuitously slandered my mother, the list heard not a peep from you.
[Hermit]
This refers to: "Topic: virus: Goodnight.", Hermit, Reply #17, 2002-09-12 (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=26508;start=15)
Nah, all you guessers have it wrong. Joe McPees is explaining that he is suffering from hereditary early onset dementia and while still sufficiently functional to care for his maternal nutcase, has suffered sufficient cognitive decline to be no longer capable of holding a civilized discussion. Pity. He once had a great mind. It does, of course, take an outsider to diagnose when a mind goes faulty. Outsider to Joe, your mind is going...
Deserved? Maybe, Maybe not. Mud sticks whoever throws it, and Joe Dees has taken to casting more than just nasty epithets around. His casting of assertions that people who dare to disagree with him or question US motivation or effect are “un-American”, “anti-American” and even “pro-Hussein” and “pro-Genocide” in these times, is perceived as a very real threat. Just as they were during the previous American collective paranoia and psychosis in the 1950s. Threats of this nature, in my opinion, are more than just invalid and impolite, they are an invitation to reciprocation. Joe Dees, in my opinion, deserves all the disaprobation and annoyance delivered back at him that he receives. And then some. I suggest that the fact that Joe Dees cannot recognize this points to his demented state.
Even so, Joe didn't even notice this alleged insult to his matriarch when he replied to the message: "Topic: virus: Goodnight.", Joe Dees, Reply #18, 2002-09-12 (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=26508;start=15). It took Casey to kindly (but fallaciously) point out that I had supposedly "slandered" his mother (whereas my digs were aimed foursquarely at Joe), whereupon Joe ranted:
"Topic: virus: To the Twisted, Demented Hermie", Joe Dees, 2002-09-12 (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=26553)Where's your apology about what you said about my mother? I don't really expect such basic human decency from you; megalomanic sociopaths such as yourself are constitutionally incapable of doing so. and subsequently a great deal more. As did Casey. All interesting, all unpleasant and all founded on an essential fallacy.
There was no a slander. There could not be. A slander is (Atomica):Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.
However Joe Dees had previously stated: "Topic: virus: Goodnight.", Joe Dees, Reply #3, 2002-09-12 (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=26508;start=15)I take 20 mg of Prozac per day; it helps me deal with caring for my mother, who is not only invalid but also suffers from Alzheimer's dementia.
Either Joe Dees was lying, and so slandered the poor decrepit old woman who gave him a 66% chance of dying senile - and after whom he is currently mopping up - or he did not. If he did, the slander is his, because I simply paraphrased his assertion. If he did not, then there can be no slander. For as I observed in my initial response "Re:virus: I have tried...", Hermit, 2002-09-13 (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=26552;start=0)Is Joe really suggesting that he imagines that there is a substantive difference between dementia and nut cases? In which case, perhaps he needs a refresher. "Dementia is usually defined as global impairment of cognitive function that interferes with normal activities. Although impaired short- and long-term memory are typical of dementia, deficits in other cognitive functions in addition to memory (e.g., abstract thinking, judgment, speech, coordination, planning or organization) are required for the diagnosis of dementia. Alzheimer's disease acc
ounts for most cases of dementia in North America (50-85%), with an additional 10-20% attributed to vascular ("multi-infarct") dementia." http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/texts/gcps/gcps0058.html - or as a cognitive psychologist might say, stark staring nuts.
I suggest that the fact that Joe Dees cannot recognize that there was no slander points to his demented state.
[hr]
[Joe Dees] When he began posting derogatory cartoons concerning me all over the BBS, you said not a word.
[Hermit]
There have been to my knowledge three images posted to which Joe Dees objected. Only one of which is correctly called a cartoon (a cartoon is always a drawing usually captioned and depicting a humorous situation), none of which depict Joe Dees (although one has been so captioned), and they are, as I shall show, not "all over the BBS".
[*]First, "Arguing on the Internet", Hermit, 2002-09-03 (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=33;action=display;threadid=26367). Which as I observed when he objected to it, in a sea of vitriolic arguments, did not relate to him. Let me add, "If the dunce cap fits, feel free to wear it."
[*]Second, "virus: A Cartoon about our purported European 'Allies'", Hermit, Reply #1, 2002-09-14 (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=26582) posted in response to Joe Dees' cartoon starting the thread which advocated unilateralism. This one rather nicely captured the stance of the more memetically infested American, so it seemed appropriate to post it to the "The Best of Virus", Hermit, Reply #12, 2002-09-15 (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=31;action=display;threadid=11553) thread. It should be noted that despite the post not specifically mentioning Joe Dees, he has so strenuously objected to it, that it seems evident that he regards it as having personified him so identifiably that it detracts from the posts he has been self-nominating to the "Best of Virus" and then citing them to support his value to the CoV. My suggestion is, "If the bigot cap fits, why then, wear it and you would."
[*]Thirdly, "Joe Dees, well tutored by CNN, addresses Scott Ritter", Hermit, Reply #8 on "virus: Fw: Is It Not True", 2002-09-15 (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=26609;start=0). This does mention Joe Dees specifically, and was posted in direct response to his assertion that "Scott Ritter's been out of the loop for 4 years (as have all the ther (sic) UNSCOM inspectors); he's being used as a propaganda prop by Saddam, but he has a right to be used, if he so acquiesces, just as we have an obligation to see that he IS being used." Scott Ritter is not here to object, and thus this cartoon, with the associated article (cross-posted on Serious Business) seemed an appropriate response. If Joe Dees didn't mean to attempt a hatchet job, he should perhaps have worn the wannabe executioner's cap a little less rakishly.
In my opinion three images, two of which do not even mention Joe Dees, and only one of which is properly called a cartoon, cannot be described as "derogatory cartoons concerning me all over the BBS" – and whenever such an attempt is made, it is blatantly fallacious. I suggest that the fact that Joe Dees cannot recognize this points to his demented state.
[hr]
[Joe Dees] When I posted cartoons concerning Hermit that were more relevant than his concerning me, he moved them, but not his own, to the free-for-all section. When I pointed out the equal or superior relevance of my head-in-ass cartoon's commentary on Hermit's politically driven propensity to allow his biases to blind him
[Hermit]
I chose not to reply to these putative "arguments" while attempting to moderate the BBS, but seeing as Joe Dees has taken this so delightfully public (and as the BBS is no longer moderated, which relieves me of following my own guidelines), let me note that Joe Dees' "cartoons" (which are not "cartoons") allegedly concerning me, and which were moderated (a grand total of two), may be viewed at "Re:Moderated material", Joe Dees, Reply #2, 2002-09-19 (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=26629) and "Re:Moderated material", Joe Dees, Reply #3, 2002-09-19 (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=26629). It may be worth noting that they were removed for, "Ineligable material - This was not previously posted to the CoV, does not appear to deal directly with Virian objectives, and so far as I know, has not been favorably commented on by other Virians." and "Direct ad hominem. Topic spamming." Material which combined attempted ad hominem with more subs
tantive material were left on the boards. I suggest that the fact that Joe Dees did not perceive this moderation as "light-handed", points to his demented state.
Joe Dees was told that Lucifer agreed with these moderation decisions and rather than accept them, chose to argue publicly that Lucifer (and of course I) must be deranged not to perceive his responses as having been appropriate. Joe Dees asserts that the silence from his fellow Virians indicates that they agree with him. I suggest that the fact that Joe Dees has asserted this, points to his demented state.
[hr]
[Joe Dees] (in other words, that he gets in his own way) into incorrectly prognosticating dire consequences for the US should his political prescriptions not be followed, a debating tool he is now employing in reference to proposed US action in Iraq (and I here mention his past list assertions regarding US action in Afghanistan that it would involve massive US deaths and casualties, that the Afghans would unite against the US, that millions of Afghanis would starve as a result of US actions in Afghanistan, that this would cause riots at the Meccan Kaaba, and that the Islamic world would subsequently unite in holy jihad against the US - all proven wrong by the subsequent course of events),
[Hermit]
Here Joe Dees makes such a slew of unfounded and premature assertion that it is difficult to respond appropriately. For starters he omits "might", "may" and "could" in order to attempt to make his case. For seconds he affirms "proven wrong" in a process which the UN, multiple observers, NGOs have been saying - and even the White House is now acknowledging - has only just begun - and which is not going well.
As but a few examples, more Afghans are now at risk of starvation than last year at this same time, some large number of Afghans are dead, the country is in the grip of the same people who were previously overthrown by the Taliban - arguably for good reasons which are becoming apparent, religious fanaticism is on the upsoar, the appointed leader of Afghanistan, a rather ruthless communist warlord can no longer defend himself without US assistance, and the US has, at least in consequence of some of this, now apparently committed to funding a vast peace keeping force in hostile territory for many years. Yet we - and our allies - already stand accused (with strong evidence) of having committed war crimes in Afghanistan. So much for a short, relatively painless war. Given that it appears we are going to be in Afghanistan for at least the next five years, at a cost of some $10 billion a month, I'd suggest that when the last foreign national is withdrawn, and "democracy" has been established will be time enough to
analyze the success - or lack of our intervention.
I suggest that the fact that Joe Dees cannot recognize the invalidity of his assertions points to his demented state.
In any case, it is difficult to determine exactly what this has to do with Joe Dees topic spamming and slinging ad hominem around? I suggest that the fact that Joe Dees cannot recognize that these issues are not related and cannot rationally be commingled points to his demented state.
[hr]
[Joe Dees] complained about this blatant and obvious inequity, and accurately labeled it as BBS administrator abuse,
[Hermit] Joe Dees persists in peppering his speech with assertions about "accuracy." To this observer at least, this smacks of newspeak for "I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, but I'm "gonna beat up" anyone who disagrees with me!" Of course, you should take my opinion from whence it comes and use your own jugement. I think that the fact that Joe Dees apparently cannot recognize that saying something does not make it so, points to his demented state.
[hr]
[Joe Dees] you upheld his discriminatory actions,
[Hermit] I am not persuaded a whole lot of people comprehend what exactly Joe Dees means by "discriminatory actions"? "Help, help, I'm being repressed"? If so a glimpse at the logs for Hermit (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=chatlog2;channel=%23Hermit;date=2002-09-16;time=13:;start=60;max=60) and #virus (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=chatlog2;channel=%23virus;date=2002-09-16;time=8:50;start=180;max=60) to see what this kind of oppression sounds like. Double check my assertion that ad hominem posted by Joe Dees to a moderated board has been left in place. Double check that material posted to the boards in contravention of the posting guidelines was not erased, but was in fact established in "Free for All." Double check that backstairs gossip about Saddam Hussein, including a diatribe from an ex-wife has been left in place on the Serious Business board under the the heading "Academically credible essays on the Islam issue" - despite the fact that this comment had
been made on it before.
I suggest that the fact that Joe Dees cannot recognize that I and Lucifer loathe discrimination and censorship and attempted to avoid any form of discrimination - and when it was forced upon us attempted to minimize the impact, points to his demented state.
[Joe Dees] and forwarded his unfounded accusation that I as 'whining' to the list,
[Hermit] You lie. Again. As usual. Please see Notice to BBS Posters for consideration and comment, Hermit, 2002-09-19 (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=26663) a moderation policy we were forced to attempt to make explicit by your tactics in a vain attempt to prevent you from whining. It had not been necessary before.
I suggest that the fact that Joe Dees cannot recognize this points to his demented state.
[hr]
[Joe Dees] when in fact I have, and have substantiated, a genuine and authentic complaint.
[Hermit] As shown above, only in your dreams. I suggest that the fact that Joe Dees can dream this, points to his demented state.
---- This message was posted by Hermit to the Virus 2002 board on Church of Virus BBS. <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=26626>
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